Why are so many Californians moving to other states? (Encinitas: loan, buy)

[skytrekker]

The Boston area - you have to pay 300K and up for a decent starter home in the Boston area- however 500K buys much- on a large lot.

In eastern Connecticut a new home in a rural town 1 acre 3 bedrooms 2.5 baths, 2 car garage, family room, fireplace 275K.

[renngrrl]

Futher clarification -

Median household income in Sacramento in 2003 $46,296
Adjusted for inflation for 2007 = $54,197 (I used 4% annual inflation which is high)
Median home price in Sacramento as of 2-12-07 $399,998

It requires almost 7.4 times the median income in Sacramento to afford the median home now. Ouch.

[mmhere]

I'll take a stab at this ... I'm 52 years old. Lived in the San Fernando Valley from 1954 through 1978. When I moved to the rural Northern California foothills in 1978, I was leaving a 'bad' place to go to a more beautiful, less congested, friendlier area.

Northern California isn't as welcoming now. Twenty-five years ago I accepted a job in Placerville (Sierra foothills) at a rate where I hardly could make ends meet. I was told, "That's the price you pay for living in God's Country." -- lower wages were justified because it was a desirable place to live.

About 5 years ago, the Bay Area discovered Sacramento and the foothills. Coming from the Bay Area, prices here WERE less expensive, the area was less crowded and crime-ridden, and commutes were comparitively short. It didn't take long to change. (see renngrrl's previous post). People who lived here a long time have been priced out of the market because wages haven't kept up with house prices.

I love California. It has so much more to offer geographically than almost any other state in the Union. It's diverse in culture and business. It's humongous (yeah, Valley-speak, I know)! The weather, compared to many other places, might be considered perfect. (We won't mention the earthquakes if you don't mention winter weather or hurricanes!!! <wink, grin>)

I can't afford to buy here. The only things I've found that I can afford in Northern California are used mobile homes in Arcata (north coast), Weed, Mt. Shasta, Oroville and Grass Valley.

NorCal has a preponderance of rugged, undeveloped, rural, and beautiful area where there are no jobs. We've run out of flat, easy places to build (unless you cound agricultural land). Even if you live in Redding, you still have to drive down to Sacramento (4+hours?) if you have a serious health problem.

Check out the history of Placer County which stretches from Roseville (northeast of Sacramento) to the north end of Lake Tahoe (Roseville, Auburn, Truckee and North Shore). It was the fastest growing county in California the past 10 years or so. They couldn't put up new housing subdivisions and retirement villages quickly enough to meet demand.

Since the bottom fell out of the housing market last year, sales stopped, but home prices haven't dropped accordingly. Crime is up as is pollution and traffic. Did I mention forest fires and floods?

Why do we look for 'good' places to live, then become so disappointed in 20 years when things change? We change as individuals and locations aren't static. Does anyone know how this compares to places like Northern Europe? Is there not a population boom there?

[extradriving]

Im a Californian. My house is 47 years old.....just a straight up 3 BR 2 BA in the Central Valley. I paid 300k. I live 90 miles from San Francisco. I drove to Texas last summer and toured new homes on acre lots 15 minutes outside DOWNTOWN San Antonio for 130k. Yes, it sucks having 3% property tax in Texas, which is triple what it is in Cali, but the dollar figure for taxes remains the same on a 100k house vs. a 300k house. I Pay 2100 a month for a mortgage including taxes on an old home, when in Texas it would run less than 1000 a month for a brand new house on LAND? THIS is why so many Californians are bailing. As for me, Texas makes me sick to my stomach. Even the air makes me want to gag. So when it comes to me, I will happily pay for my house in the land of few tornadoes and low humidity .

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by mmhere

Why do we look for 'good' places to live, then become so disappointed in 20 years when things change? We change as individuals and locations aren't static. Does anyone know how this compares to places like Northern Europe? Is there not a population boom there?

Northern Europe is experiencing declining population growth, and a loss of highly educated young people who cannot find jobs in static, socialized job markets which must employ and fund retirements for a massive aging population. Housing prices are insanely high and as a result, far more Europeans rent, or live in housing that would be considered substandard to Americans.

Aside from the very wealthy Scandanavians, many of the best and brightest in Germany, France, Italy, and even the UK, are finding their way to the US to capitalize on their educations.

The things that people complain about in this thread - overcrowding, arrival of immigrants - is exactly what prevents the situation happening in Northern Europe from happening here.

[OCCASparky]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

Northern Europe is experiencing declining population growth, and a loss of highly educated young people who cannot find jobs in static, socialized job markets which must employ and fund retirements for a massive aging population. Housing prices are insanely high and as a result, far more Europeans rent, or live in housing that would be considered substandard to Americans.

Aside from the very wealthy Scandanavians, many of the best and brightest in Germany, France, Italy, and even the UK, are finding their way to the US to capitalize on their educations.

The things that people complain about in this thread - overcrowding, arrival of immigrants - is exactly what prevents the situation happening in Northern Europe from happening here.

But it IS happening in Cali, despite the influx. Many of those immigrants are not skilled workers and end up taking more from services than they pay in taxes.

Then you have the legislature turning the state into a socialist paradise (or working person's nightmare--take your pick) with oppresively high taxes, overbearing regulations, and creating a business climate that drives out people in droves.

Sass--California is LOSING population, despite the immigrant influx. And guess who is leaving? Yep, you got it--the taxpayers. Fewer and fewer people are going to be stuck paying for more and more programs that shouldn't be paid for by government at all.

[corduroyboy]

That simple little device inches from your hand (when it's on the steering wheel and not putting on makeup, shaving, reading the paper, or checking emails on your palm pilot, or having your cell phone shoved down your throat), is never used out here. My daily frustrations in traffic are the morons that refuse to use their blinkers. It's too much effort for them to simply push that little lever to indicate to me that they will be cutting me off to cut over 5 lanes. I hate California drivers.

[Boof]

Originally Posted by corduroyboy

I hate California drivers.

LOL Funny....I was thinking the same thing last night on the way home. It's CRAZY out there!!! And I'm not even in LA or Sac or the Bay Area. And lets not EVEN talk about SF with all of it's one way streets!

Yep, definately a factor to add to the list of reasons to leave CA. But if that were the only problem we had, it wouldn't be enough to compel me to leave.

Originally Posted by OCCASparky

...California is LOSING population, despite the immigrant influx. And guess who is leaving? Yep, you got it--the taxpayers. Fewer and fewer people are going to be stuck paying for more and more programs that shouldn't be paid for by government at all.

BINGO!!!!!

One cannot help but wonder....how many more people would leave if they weren't tied to their family or jobs. That seems to be a big factor. You hear people say....'I'd leave, but my Kids/Grandkids are here', or.....'As soon as I retire....'.

What would the state do if everyone that wanted to leave...just up and left? Businesses included...

Adding two more cents to the penny jar...
Boof

[la quinta family]

Originally Posted by corduroyboy

That simple little device inches from your hand (when it's on the steering wheel and not putting on makeup, shaving, reading the paper, or checking emails on your palm pilot, or having your cell phone shoved down your throat), is never used out here. My daily frustrations in traffic are the morons that refuse to use their blinkers. It's too much effort for them to simply push that little lever to indicate to me that they will be cutting me off to cut over 5 lanes. I hate California drivers.

Too true.. I think they should start enforcing the signal law.
Geez... California drivers are the worst. Tailgating, lane changing
within a few feet with no signals.. speeding I've lived here all my life
but I've seen courtesy on the roadways dwindle. Makes me want
to move to a small town far away from the hussle and stress.

[Wisteria]

Having moved to California from the eastcoast, my guess is that those who are criticizing CA drivers, haven't been back there lately!

California may be expensive, but the property and other taxes in other states (i.e. New York), are so high, that any money left over from selling your house in CA, goes to those. My father has a house worth $50,000 in Western New York, a deal compared to California where the same house would go for at least $500,000. But his property taxes are higher than mine on my $245,000 house!!

I may move when I retire, which is why I'm looking around....but that's not to say it's all bad in California. I'm not sure how many people have lived in other places, but it's not always greener on the other side of the fence. There should be some very good logistical reasons for leaving.

Traffic, rudeness, overcrowding, immigrants, poverty, and other ugly societal factors also exist in most other places. There is no nirvana.

California does have good weather (my daughter and I spent the day in beautiful Carmel on Saturday and it was like summer -- just gorgeous -- although we could only window shop.....). There is a lot of tolerance compared to many, many places. There is a wide diversity of beauty and natural surroundings. The beaches have free access for the public! (That is so cool, I think.)

I'd like to hear more from people who have left and then returned, or wish they could return....California bashing is getting pretty intense. I, personally, could use lower prices, (although prices are rising everyplace in the U.S. now -- it's a national problem), but the flipside is that wages are higher, there is a lot of natural beauty, great weather, high tolerance, diversity and low property taxes.

Finding a place that "fits" a person is one thing, but to keep bashing another place just because, especially if one has not lived elsewhere, I think is folly.

Thanks!