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View Poll Results: How will you vote on Prop 6?
Yes 50 61.73%
No 31 38.27%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-27-2018, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,700 posts, read 26,673,300 times
Reputation: 37683

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSoCal View Post
To support your argument, take a look at Arizona. Gasoline prices are over $1.00 less than California and their roads are in better condition. Their auto registration fees are also much lower.
Then, you need to look at how they pay for their road repairs. They aren't free. So, if they don't pay for road repairs with gas taxes - which taxes do they use to pay for them? Because, if there are good roads, there are taxes that pay for them.

It will be paid for with property taxes, or sales taxes, etc.

But, there is no such thing as free road repairs.

So, look to see how they are paid for - if the roads are in good shape.

You are paying for them, one way or another.

Just like the "free" healthcare in Canada. The middle class pays about 50% in taxes. So, how "free" is "free" healthcare?

Anything that's ever promoted as "free" must be paid for. And, if it's a government benefit, it's paid for with taxes - one way or another.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Beautiful free Arizona
4,285 posts, read 2,508,604 times
Reputation: 6303
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Then, you need to look at how they pay for their road repairs. They aren't free. So, if they don't pay for road repairs with gas taxes - which taxes do they use to pay for them? Because, if there are good roads, there are taxes that pay for them.

It will be paid for with property taxes, or sales taxes, etc.

But, there is no such thing as free road repairs.

So, look to see how they are paid for - if the roads are in good shape.

You are paying for them, one way or another.

Just like the "free" healthcare in Canada. The middle class pays about 50% in taxes. So, how "free" is "free" healthcare?

Anything that's ever promoted as "free" must be paid for. And, if it's a government benefit, it's paid for with taxes - one way or another.
Of course it's not free. You don't have to tell Californians that. The difference is Az politicians are actually putting the tax money to roads and infrastructure instead of the general fund aka pensions and trains to no where then ram a new unvoted for tax on us. I don't even think communist countries do that.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,700 posts, read 26,673,300 times
Reputation: 37683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper View Post
Of course it's not free. You don't have to tell Californians that. The difference is Az politicians are actually putting the tax money to roads and infrastructure instead of the general fund aka pensions and trains to no where then ram a new unvoted for tax on us. I don't even think communist countries do that.
I had to drive around several road construction zones just today, near where I live in San Jose. So, I can see how the tax money is being spent. So, the tax money IS going to roads and infrastructure where I live.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,700 posts, read 26,673,300 times
Reputation: 37683
I have to question who is voting on this poll, because the news polls show Prop 6 is losing by a large margin. So, anyone here trying to sway voters probably isn't going to be effective, by padding this poll.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Murrieta California
3,034 posts, read 4,131,003 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Then, you need to look at how they pay for their road repairs. They aren't free. So, if they don't pay for road repairs with gas taxes - which taxes do they use to pay for them? Because, if there are good roads, there are taxes that pay for them.

It will be paid for with property taxes, or sales taxes, etc.

But, there is no such thing as free road repairs.

So, look to see how they are paid for - if the roads are in good shape.

You are paying for them, one way or another.

Just like the "free" healthcare in Canada. The middle class pays about 50% in taxes. So, how "free" is "free" healthcare?

Anything that's ever promoted as "free" must be paid for. And, if it's a government benefit, it's paid for with taxes - one way or another.
One of the big problems in California is that for many years the Democrats diverted the gas tax funds to other pet projects instead of spending it on roads. Arizona funds their roads with gas taxes like most states.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:34 PM
 
5,340 posts, read 8,886,974 times
Reputation: 7667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper View Post
Of course it's not free. You don't have to tell Californians that. The difference is Az politicians are actually putting the tax money to roads and infrastructure instead of the general fund aka pensions and trains to no where then ram a new unvoted for tax on us. I don't even think communist countries do that.
I gave up on trying to read that poster's rants about a week ago.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
5,599 posts, read 2,565,073 times
Reputation: 8975
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
I had to drive around several road construction zones just today, near where I live in San Jose. So, I can see how the tax money is being spent. So, the tax money IS going to roads and infrastructure where I live.

Though in terms of state highways...perhaps they'd be cheaper if they'd take the time to make a straight leveled out road. 17 is doable, but 9? I get carsick driving it, and scared sick at the 1 lane portions. San Jose really can't find a straighter shot to the 5 than 130...which is so windy everyone goes through Gilroy and their 2 lane... I was scared crazy driving to Mendocino in the dark for the first time. I thought for sure we were lost.



All of our engineers are making apps...there's nobody left for land apparently. We're just not smart enough to build a decent road at a somewhat affordable cost. We need to get some dynamite and make some level, straight roads instead of paying hazard pay to have equipment practically careening off a mountain to make twisty roads that go nowhere fast.



And when's this BART station going to be done? It's now taken longer to build 10 miles on preexisting track lines than the original transcontinental railroad took over 100 years ago. Oh, and the cost was $50M in 1863....which is about $952M today....so the 10 miles of track also costs multiples more than it took to cross the entire nation.



Have we regressed so far?



There's just no accountability. We keep throwing money at lazy idiots who don't solve anything and then cite the same problems seeking more money.
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Old 10-28-2018, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,700 posts, read 26,673,300 times
Reputation: 37683
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
Though in terms of state highways...perhaps they'd be cheaper if they'd take the time to make a straight leveled out road. 17 is doable, but 9? I get carsick driving it, and scared sick at the 1 lane portions. San Jose really can't find a straighter shot to the 5 than 130...which is so windy everyone goes through Gilroy and their 2 lane... I was scared crazy driving to Mendocino in the dark for the first time. I thought for sure we were lost.



All of our engineers are making apps...there's nobody left for land apparently. We're just not smart enough to build a decent road at a somewhat affordable cost. We need to get some dynamite and make some level, straight roads instead of paying hazard pay to have equipment practically careening off a mountain to make twisty roads that go nowhere fast.



And when's this BART station going to be done? It's now taken longer to build 10 miles on preexisting track lines than the original transcontinental railroad took over 100 years ago. Oh, and the cost was $50M in 1863....which is about $952M today....so the 10 miles of track also costs multiples more than it took to cross the entire nation.



Have we regressed so far?



There's just no accountability. We keep throwing money at lazy idiots who don't solve anything and then cite the same problems seeking more money.
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I do know that when a government wants to change a highway's route, unless the state (or city/county, etc.) owns it, a lot more issues need to be dealt with than just money.

Because now you have to deal with eminent domain, and compensating landowners (more money), and environmental impact studies, economic impacts, citizen hearings, on and on.

The scariest road I most recently had to deal with was Hwy 1 between Crescent City and Eureka. That is a scary, windy road on the cliffs above the ocean, and landslides are a regular problem - so they create these impossibly narrow one-lane situations, where they use a pilot car to move traffic in one direction and then another. And the weather is often severe - rain and high winds. Really scary!

There has been talk for years about creating a by-pass road, but there is a lot of local resistance to that, because the small towns along Hwy 1 up there rely a lot on tourism, which they would lose. And those towns are barely holding on by a thread, economically, as it is - like Crescent City and the other small towns in that area that caters to tourists who come to see the giant redwoods and the lighthouse and ocean.
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Old 10-28-2018, 01:59 PM
 
Location: So Ca
21,071 posts, read 18,664,502 times
Reputation: 18289
Online comment from this article: "The "Yes on 6" campaign was planning a drive across the state with stops at multiple locations to promote the measure but their car hit a pothole damaging the car so they had to cancel."

*********************

"Beginning in 2010, at the height of the recession when the state budget was hemorrhaging billions of dollars, the Legislature and then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger began using truck weight fees to pay off transportation bonds. The vast majority of those bonds financed highway and bridge repairs, a good use of truck fees. But one set of bonds helped fund the high-speed rail project.

That’s a bad use. Truck weight fees should be used solely for repairing highway damage caused by trucks.

Instead, nearly $1.8 billion worth has been spent on bullet train bonds. The rationale is that high-speed rail is a transportation project, just as bridge repair is. OK, but the bullet train shouldn’t be funded by highway fees. Bad policy. Terrible PR.

That said, California needs to fix its crumbling roads. There’s a massive $130-billion backlog in maintenance. This has to be paid for by motorists. The only realistic way is to keep those slightly higher fuel taxes and registration fees.

A ballot measure passed in June locks up the revenue solely for transportation projects — and prevents its use on bullet train bonds."

The campaign to repeal California's gas tax increase is sputtering. That's because voters don't know about it - Los Angeles Times
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,700 posts, read 26,673,300 times
Reputation: 37683
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Online comment from this article: "The "Yes on 6" campaign was planning a drive across the state with stops at multiple locations to promote the measure but their car hit a pothole damaging the car so they had to cancel."

*********************

"Beginning in 2010, at the height of the recession when the state budget was hemorrhaging billions of dollars, the Legislature and then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger began using truck weight fees to pay off transportation bonds. The vast majority of those bonds financed highway and bridge repairs, a good use of truck fees. But one set of bonds helped fund the high-speed rail project.

That’s a bad use. Truck weight fees should be used solely for repairing highway damage caused by trucks.

Instead, nearly $1.8 billion worth has been spent on bullet train bonds. The rationale is that high-speed rail is a transportation project, just as bridge repair is. OK, but the bullet train shouldn’t be funded by highway fees. Bad policy. Terrible PR.

That said, California needs to fix its crumbling roads. There’s a massive $130-billion backlog in maintenance. This has to be paid for by motorists. The only realistic way is to keep those slightly higher fuel taxes and registration fees.

A ballot measure passed in June locks up the revenue solely for transportation projects — and prevents its use on bullet train bonds."

The campaign to repeal California's gas tax increase is sputtering. That's because voters don't know about it - Los Angeles Times
Funny story about the pot hole LOL.

I agree that it's much more fair to have road repairs paid for with a tax by people who use the roads. Much more fair than any bond measure that places more taxes on property owners.

Now that I'm not a property owner, I do not vote on any measures that are regarding taxing property owners. I only think property owners should be able to vote on taxes that only affect them.

I owned a condo in Davis, CA at one point, and the town voted to tax property owners to provide more housing for students - most of which, of course, voted yes - and probably zero percent of them owned property. Grrrr.

So, yes, makes total sense for those of us who drive on the roads - to pay to fix them.
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