How are you voting on Prop 12 (farm animals) ? (cost, law)

[janellen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Ok janellen et al ... more on pigs:

California sheriff's deputies use Doritos to round up loose pig

Just today, Doritos saved the bacon!

I'll see your Dorritos pig and raise you one. Careful this is kind of disgusting................fascinating, but disgusting.


https://youtu.be/RCdri14tJ50

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by janellen

I'll see your Dorritos pig and raise you one. Careful this is kind of disgusting................fascinating, but disgusting.


https://youtu.be/RCdri14tJ50

Janellen ... I was in the Navy ... by choice ... I know that pig ...

[janellen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Janellen ... I was in the Navy ... by choice ... I know that pig ...

LMAO Ok, I give.....you win the one-upsmanship contest.

[Social Democrat]

Another yes vote!

[humboldtrat]

We voted on this and it passed in 2008 on Prop 2. Why do we have to vote on this again?

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...Animals_(2008)

[evening sun]

Originally Posted by humboldtrat

We voted on this and it passed in 2008 on Prop 2. Why do we have to vote on this again?

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...Animals_(2008)

I think the one in 2008 was for chickens, & not other animals, Someone can correct me, as I am not sure.

[CA4Now]

There must be more to this proposition than it appears on the surface. Here's an excerpt from a link to a website that's against it. There look to be a LOT of people and organizations against this proposition.

Proposition 12 is an outright scam.

This measure was co-written by United Egg Producers and would explicitly legalize cruel battery cages in California until at least 2022. And it would forever confine hens inside massive factory farms that restrict hens to only one square foot floor space per bird!

No one should fall for HSUS's bogus claims that it will regulate the sale and production of veal and pork from other states. That cynical and constitutionally flawed window dressing will never survive the inevitable years of legal challenges. It was only inserted into the initiative to distract from its massive sell-out to the egg industry.

Find out why Californians Against Cruelty, Cages, and Fraud, the Humane Farming Association (HFA), Friends of Animals (FoA), People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), and many others are strongly opposing the measure. Please visit NoOnProposition12.org

https://stoptherottenegginitiative.org/

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by humboldtrat

We voted on this and it passed in 2008 on Prop 2. Why do we have to vote on this again?

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...Animals_(2008)

Prop 12 may legalize the cages that we voted to prohibit on Prop 2. Not good.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

My first thought on this proposition was - didn't we just vote on this? But, it turns out this one just fixes some problems with the one we recently passed on chickens having enough space to turn around, where the space needed to turn around - needed to be more specific.

This one also bans the sale of meat from out of state that doesn't meet California's requirements for the farms within California. This explained to me why the meat industry in CA isn't throwing any money at this proposition, opposing it, which I was trying to figure out.

So, it puts our animal farmers on a more equal footing with their competitors from out of state, who don't have the same requirements as our in-state farmers.

That just seems fair.

I had to do the math on how much space this new proposition actually worked out to, for the animals named in it. It breaks down like this:

Chickens - 1 square foot per chicken = a space 1 foot by 1 foot
and they'd have to be cage-free by 2020, which can just mean a big barn full of chickens instead of in cages

Pigs - 24 square feet per pig = a space almost 5 feet by 5 feet. This allows them to turn around.

Calves - 43 square feet per calf = a space about 6.5 feet by 6.5 feet. This allows them to turn around.

I did find some really disturbing videos online that show these animals in smaller cages that they can't turn around in, but I'm going to spare you from watching them. But, they're out there, if you want to see what they're actually like.

This proposition just also makes enforcement of the law simpler - if the dimensions are specified.

I'm all for more humane farming, and although I'm a vegan, I don't have a problem with other people eating meat. I used to raise my own pigs to eat and sell, and always treated them really well and gave them lots of room to run around and dig in the dirt. Only seems fair. And I like that this gives California farmers a more level playing field with out-of-state farmers who aren't required to be humane in their state - but would be forced to do so, if they want to sell their meat in CA.

And, as I say, there is no opposition to this proposition from CA farmers, which says a lot.

So, I'm a yes on Prop 12.

I'd welcome your opinions. I did make this poll a public poll, in case we end up with out-of-state farmers skewing the results.

[Snort]

Pigs - 24 square feet per pig = a space almost 5 feet by 5 feet. This allows them to turn around.

This would also allow enough room for a K-turn and parallel parking.

I'm voting "vegetarian".
Animals deserve better treatment across the boards.