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Old 02-13-2019, 12:36 PM
 
6,089 posts, read 4,986,028 times
Reputation: 5985

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I'm not so sure here in the Bay Area... few taxes do not get approved here.

More of those that do not own could care less... in my opinion.

Maybe the shift 40 years ago was many or most non-homeowners aspired to become homeowners?
This is the problem with one party rule. I feel for you guys stuck in California and about to get swamped in taxation in the coming years.

All I have to say is voting has consequences, and California is a pretty stark reminder of that.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:48 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,392,470 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
That sounds like a spending problem, which was my point.

The Democrat super-majority has a spending problem, not a tax revenue problem in California.
Right, they have no problem taxing and taxing and ... taxing. They do not have any problem spending either.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:54 PM
 
629 posts, read 619,642 times
Reputation: 1750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I'm not so sure here in the Bay Area... few taxes do not get approved here.

More of those that do not own could care less... in my opinion.

Maybe the shift 40 years ago was many or most non-homeowners aspired to become homeowners?
Exactly. Most new taxes here are funded by “someone else.” Property owners and businesses almost exclusively being the funding parties. Basically people “who can afford it,” so who cares about them? They’re greedy and horrible people so they should be paying as much as their balance sheet allows. They have to pay “their fair share” whether they have the funds or not. So why would anything NOT pass? The people who are told they won’t be the ones paying for things are the voting majority. They’re too naive to realize that those increased taxes, fees, wage hikes, etc are directly or indirectly passed on to renters and consumers, forcing the cost of living ever higher.

My techy neighbors make a whole lot more than I did, as a business owner and property owner in the city, but they aren’t the ones officially funding most of the yearly voted-in tax hikes. Fair share my ass. At least the state taxation hits us both.

The haves have a target on their backs in this state. They didn’t earn it and they certainly don’t deserve it. Right?

Do you want a fun combination? How about ending prop 13 for apartment buildings with rental control. Yeah, that would be fun. Screw those evil landlords. Am I right?

And how about ending prop 13 for commercial real estate. Many of those are triple net leases, meaning the tenant pays property tax based on percentage of the building leased. In essence you just dramatically increased rent on that business. And those not on triple nets have property tax factored into lease amounts. The businesses will try to pass that onto the customers, but there’s only so much you can increase prices before people stop buying your product (like the min wage hike did to a lot of small cheaper places). Or maybe they can cut some staff instead to survive? Bye bye small business. Screw em.

Last edited by alliance; 02-13-2019 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 3,045,998 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
or the 20's, 30's, 70's etc.

My home built in 1993... no Mello.

It would seem Mello varies by location and not age of property in question.

Some districts. especially Southern CA embrace Mello as the second coming... removes the reality of budget constraints from the mix...

Why should those living in 1950's homes in downhill neighborhoods have to pay for Taj Mahal Fire Houses, Roads, and Schools in neighborhoods they will never see?
And why, back in the 1920s, did those homeowners living in 1920s homes have to pay for the roads, sewers and schools that came along during the late 40s and 50s building boom? They did! There was no Mello Roos back then to fund all of that infrastructure. And there was no Prop 13, giving the 1920s folks ultra low property taxes.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:46 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,659,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougStark View Post
And why, back in the 1920s, did those homeowners living in 1920s homes have to pay for the roads, sewers and schools that came along during the late 40s and 50s building boom? They did! There was no Mello Roos back then to fund all of that infrastructure. And there was no Prop 13, giving the 1920s folks ultra low property taxes.
So was Income Tax... most never owed anything and Social Security later was very modest...

My first home was built in 1922... the builder put in the roads, sidewalks, drainage/sewer... water company put in the water, PGE put in utilities and telephone put in telephone because they wanted to expand customer base...

Amazing how well these 1922 homes faired nearly 100 years later... "Building" permits were limited to Electrical and enforcing setbacks... so simple... you owned a lot and you built...

What's more amazing is these homes sold new with detached garage for $2800 and that left enough for the builder to put in the infrastructure...

Stop buying homes with Mello and the Mello would disappear...

I pity those now... several years in design review, neighborhood hearings... the style and appearance of your home down to the trees on the lot are all someone else's decision.

The new roof on my home cost 3x what the home cost new!!!
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:12 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,392,470 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
So was Income Tax... most never owed anything and Social Security later was very modest...

My first home was built in 1922... the builder put in the roads, sidewalks, drainage/sewer... water company put in the water, PGE put in utilities and telephone put in telephone because they wanted to expand customer base...

Amazing how well these 1922 homes faired nearly 100 years later... "Building" permits were limited to Electrical and enforcing setbacks... so simple... you owned a lot and you built...

What's more amazing is these homes sold new with detached garage for $2800 and that left enough for the builder to put in the infrastructure...

Stop buying homes with Mello and the Mello would disappear...

I pity those now... several years in design review, neighborhood hearings... the style and appearance of your home down to the trees on the lot are all someone else's decision.

The new roof on my home cost 3x what the home cost new!!!
Those city employees have to have their pay come from somewhere, so more and more requirements.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:49 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,659,938 times
Reputation: 23268
One of my good friends is recently retired city manager and previous assistant city manager for another Bay Area city...

The elephant in the room is not wages... not even so much benefits... this managers entire focus was retirement funding...

I have seen the charts showing it as unsustainable... kick the can down the road for tomorrow may never come.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:00 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,392,470 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
One of my good friends is recently retired city manager and previous assistant city manager for another Bay Area city...

The elephant in the room is not wages... not even so much benefits... this managers entire focus was retirement funding...

I have seen the charts showing it as unsustainable... kick the can down the road for tomorrow may never come.
Yes such retirement funds are a major issue for sure, but also all the positions that did not exist years ago, that now do to review and review and review permits, plans etc. Gotta pay all those guys, so have to have something for them to do that makes money.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Rust'n in Tustin
3,269 posts, read 3,930,978 times
Reputation: 7059
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
'Til there are no rich no more?

-- Alvin Lee
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,087 posts, read 15,159,512 times
Reputation: 3740
Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy.
-- anonymous
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