Newsome ending death penalty in California (San Francisco: felon, tax, gangs)

[greatblueheron]

I have not read all posts. Thought CA had banned the death penalty some years ago...that's why Manson and co. were not put to death....

what am I missing...?

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I never said that all the exonerations were death penalty cases, did I? DNA examination isn't routinely done by the prosecution. If they have a suspect they will rely on the evidence they have rather than take a chance of having foreign DNA cast doubt on their case. If the defense isn't experienced they may not request testing or they may not know which items to have tested. DNA evidence that is found is of little use until the donor is identified and that might not happen for decades, or until the accused is dead..or never

Prosecutors aren't the ones who do or order DNA tests, that is for the investigators. It is the defenses responsibility to defend their client. Defendants are entitled to a defense, not a perfect defense; just like the people don't get a second bite for less than adequate prosecutors.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

So you think that being a "violent sociopath" is a death penalty eligible offense? In California homicide with special circumstances and treason are the only crimes eligible for the death penalty, I think you will find that to be consistent with the laws of other states.

I was pretty clear that the violent sociopaths on DEATH ROW for the crimes they ALREADY COMMITTED are the ones who should be executed because they constitute a danger to all those forced to deal with them. Several of the violent sociopaths on death row have had their guilt of the crime for which they were sentenced proved not just beyond reasonable doubt, but all doubt. No one can say Kraft or Wesson might be not guilty or wrongfully convicted.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Not true. A law that is overturned requires legislative action to restore it. A moratorium stands only until it is rescinded or the Governor leaves office.

A rose by any other name except to those who play silly semantic games.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

There is no proven deterrent effect of the death penalty

The deterrent effect is unknown because there are not enough cases of where crime, sentence and execution occur in close enough proximity to study for effect.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Source?

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/...deceitful-way/

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by greatblueheron

I have not read all posts. Thought CA had banned the death penalty some years ago...that's why Manson and co. were not put to death.... what am I missing...?

It was ruled unconstitutional by the state supreme court. The voters of CA recalled two (I think two) of those justices and the DP was restored. Manson fell in that time period where once his death penalty was commuted, it could not be restored.


CA voters as recently as 2016 affirmed their strong desire for a timely, effective death penalty.
While Hillary Clinton was beating Trump by 4 million votes, over half of those voters voted for the death penalty initiative.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

Prosecutors aren't the ones who do or order DNA tests, that is for the investigators. It is the defenses responsibility to defend their client. Defendants are entitled to a defense, not a perfect defense; just like the people don't get a second bite for less than adequate prosecutors.

I was pretty clear that the violent sociopaths on DEATH ROW for the crimes they ALREADY COMMITTED are the ones who should be executed because they constitute a danger to all those forced to deal with them. Several of the violent sociopaths on death row have had their guilt of the crime for which they were sentenced proved not just beyond reasonable doubt, but all doubt. No one can say Kraft or Wesson might be not guilty or wrongfully convicted.
A rose by any other name except to those who play silly semantic games.
The deterrent effect is unknown because there are not enough cases of where crime, sentence and execution occur in close enough proximity to study for effect.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/15/editorial-repeal-california-death-penalty-but-not-newsoms-deceitful-way/[/url][/quote]

Prosecutors play an important role in deciding what scientific analysis will be done in a case. Of course investigators are involved, why would you quibble over what I said? If we are going to kill people I hope they receive a perfect defense because you can't say "oops sorry about that" after you kill someone.

I gave you two studies regarding the deterrent effect and it's clear that you didn't read either one. Regarding the interview with Newsom- that interview was from 2018, not 2016 and he did not say that he wouldn't put a moratorium on the death penalty, he said he was not prepared to do what O'Malley and Quinn had done which was mass commutations of death penalty sentences. Everyone who voted knew how Newsom felt about the death penalty and he won by 24 points so it's a little hard for anyone to feel 'duped' into voting for him.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

CA voters as recently as 2016 affirmed their strong desire for a timely, effective death penalty.

2.6% hardly reflects a "strong desire", and it doesn't matter anyway because after it passed the California Supreme Court ruled that the 5 year limit on appeals has to be viewed as a directive but is not mandatory.

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Everyone who voted knew how Newsom felt about the death penalty and he won by 24 points so it's a little hard for anyone to feel 'duped' into voting for him.

This is true. They knew he wasn't in favor of the DP. Yet, based on his comment that he would respect the will of the people, I think many were surprised that he place a moratorium on it, especially after Prop 62 was defeated in 2016.

[Hulsker 1856]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

It was ruled unconstitutional by the state supreme court. The voters of CA recalled two (I think two) of those justices and the DP was restored. Manson fell in that time period where once his death penalty was commuted, it could not be restored.

No, none of the justices in the 6-1 majority in the People v. Anderson (1972) case were recalled. No California Supreme Court Justice has ever been recalled, period. Four of the six retired at various times, while the other two died in office.

It should also be noted that two months after the decision in People v. Anderson was issued, the United States Supreme Court commuted all capital sentences in the country to life imprisonment in Furman v. Georgia. So even had the California Supreme Court not ruled as such, the death penalty would have temporarily ended in California anyway.

[Robertfchew]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I don't think life in prison is going easy on someone.

These are not normal people. Once they adapt they are fine in prison. Tv, books, internet, food, workouts, medical care. These are the most deviant people around and scumbag just gave them a golden ticket. I truly hope his entire family suffers at the hands of someone like this. I don't feel bad about saying it either because we do not need any more of his kind in this world.

[Robertfchew]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

It's not a deterrent, it never has been and never will be. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.bec066b34280

It would be if you die how you killed. They make it too humane.

[Robertfchew]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

I guess life could be considered comfortable if you live in a 6x8 cell, being told when to eat, when sleep and never being able to leave the compound. Make an enemy and you'll run the risk of being stabbed in the showers. Act up and spend time in solitary. Never travel, never spend a holiday with family unless there's a guard looking on .... yeah, that's a helluva comfortable life. But yeah, a conjugal visit makes up for all of it. lol Guess your definition and mine are very different.

These people have no desire for those things. they are not like normal citizens.