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Old 10-07-2019, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Riverside, California
68 posts, read 34,027 times
Reputation: 118

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
We all know California ranks below average in terms of K-12 education.

But is this really mostly because the stats are skewed due to California having the largest illegal immigrant population? What if you are only considering those who are here legally?

I believe that affluent school districts in California actually outperform other affluent school districts in other parts of the country and the statistics are simply skewed by illegal immigrants and a large performance gap between the rich and poor.

Yes to a large extent.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:25 PM
 
3,480 posts, read 3,466,630 times
Reputation: 4118
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
It's actually appalling how richer cities/counties have schools that are so much better than poorer cities/counties in CA. It just seems so wrong that the quality of education can be so different across the state, based on the affluence of that area's population.

I'd like to see us pool the state's resources and provide equal education for the entire state.
I lean slightly conservative/libertarian so vouchers were always a compelling idea. However, if we're doing public education, and that's how it's going to be, then I agree with this. I also think immersion in English before mainstreaming should be a thing. It's how it used to be and it assimilated the immigrant population faster.
My 2 cents
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
37,086 posts, read 17,202,336 times
Reputation: 27418
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
You're right, it is, but I'm curious how you know the status of all the kids at your grandson's school.

In the 1980s I worked with Hispanic children in East LA, and while I didn't know their status either, I am pretty sure a good number of their families were here illegally, based on how excited they were about "Amnestia."

That's not the point though; the point though is that although all the grade-school-aged kids I worked with spoke English, I wouldn't say they all spoke "well." They sounded superficially fluent, but didn't have the grasp on grammar that the children of native English-speakers typically have, and their vocabularies were not broad. (This did tend to improve considerably as they approached high school age.)

I have administered standardized tests to grade-school students as a private-school teacher, and I know many of these kids would not have done at all well on the language sections. It should go without saying that having a large number of children from immigrant (non-English-speaking families) tends to bring down a school's performance, judged by test scores.

Schools in wealthier districts have more students who were raised by parents who are native English-speaking parents and who are also fairly well educated themselves, which is another huge factor, so it's natural that they perform better. It's really unrealistic to expect anything otherwise.
I don't know the status of every child in the school, I said most of the kids are citizens and most of the parents are here legally. I know that a district administrator shared that with me.

This is not a 'neighborhood school' it is an open enrollment (by lottery) public school, so there is some self selection there - parents who are not willing or able to help with their child's education don't usually sign up their kid for a school which requires parental involvement and one where the parents have to provide transportation for their children to and from school.

This is the racial breakdown for the school
White:72.0%
Hispanic:15.4%
African American:4.5%
Two or more races:3.9%
Asian:3.7%
Pacific Islander:0.4%
American Indian:0.2%

33% receive free or reduced price lunches
As I said before there is a very large number of Russian, Ukranian, and Middle Eastern students most of their parents are refugees or here on work visas. Few are English proficient.

In spite of that in 3rd grade 62.8% are proficient in English Language Arts/Literacy and by 5th grade that number jumps to 83.3%
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,820 posts, read 90,466,683 times
Reputation: 48739
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I think it's probably just the school your kids are in. My grandson goes to a highly rated public open enrollment (lottery) school and it's pretty awesome. My grandson reads better in 2nd grade than I did in 4th grade, he loves math so he's with a group of advanced math students learning algebra. He has homework every night and really loves learning and going to school. The school is very, very pushy about parental involvement, if you don't willingly volunteer they shame you into it. But I do agree with your comment about title-1 schools they seem to be better maintained and have better computers and tablets for the kids to use, but they also end up with about 12% of the students reading at grade level ugh.
this has a lot to do with the home environment as well When our oldest daughter, who turns 60 in 3 days was in the Pasadena school district she was first skipped a grade, then she went into classes for advanced kids. Look how many years ago that was and Pasadena was already getting a bad reputation.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
37,086 posts, read 17,202,336 times
Reputation: 27418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podo944 View Post
I lean slightly conservative/libertarian so vouchers were always a compelling idea. However, if we're doing public education, and that's how it's going to be, then I agree with this. I also think immersion in English before mainstreaming should be a thing. It's how it used to be and it assimilated the immigrant population faster.
My 2 cents
English Immersion was required by state law since 1998. In 2016 voters overturned that law allowing kids to be taught in their native language when appropriate.


I think done right, bi-lingual teaching has some advantages over English immersion.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
37,086 posts, read 17,202,336 times
Reputation: 27418
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
this has a lot to do with the home environment as well When our oldest daughter, who turns 60 in 3 days was in the Pasadena school district she was first skipped a grade, then she went into classes for advanced kids. Look how many years ago that was and Pasadena was already getting a bad reputation.
Yes, it has a great deal to do with home environment, that's why the open enrollment schools are generally better, they attract parents who are interested in their child's education.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:36 PM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,470,654 times
Reputation: 5952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Larry View Post
The biggest problem is certain demographics are anti-education, they love to mock, ridicule and harass anyone who strives to better themselves. They value their illiteracy as a badge of honor and they will always be a victim. They are too stupid to realize how stupid they are.
Pretty much.

The types that will get into a full on fist fight with their teacher, or make up a fake crime by cutting off their own dreadlocks, and then claim "oppression".
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:46 PM
 
9,623 posts, read 5,792,862 times
Reputation: 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
English Immersion was required by state law since 1998. In 2016 voters overturned that law allowing kids to be taught in their native language when appropriate.


I think done right, bi-lingual teaching has some advantages over English immersion.
My sister taught migrant children in central Washington state to read, in Spanish. She argued convincingly that reading is a skill which is easiest to master in your native/dominant language, but which then transfers readily to any subsequent languages. As she said, if you have a five- or six-year-old who barely knows English, what English are you going to give them to read that will make any sense to them? "The cat sat on the mat"...okay, they probably know cat, but what's a mat? How can you learn to read in a language you don't understand?

She said her school was doing pretty well teaching these children reading and writing in Spanish, but everything else in English, then transitioning them to all-g English withing a year or two. At a certain point, though, some new laws went through which banned teaching anything in any language other than English, and according to her, the school's performance promptly went downhill. Since sister was no longer needed as a Spanish reading instructor, she transitioned to science teacher for the remainder of her career.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,682 posts, read 26,087,462 times
Reputation: 37545
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Uh they already do that. Unless the district is designated a "basic aid" district (of which they are very FEW), then they get their money from a general pool.

The reason for the difference in education quality is more influenced by the quality of the teachers, but even more so, the QoL of the parents who put their kids into public schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
you mean to say the State of CA pays more for students enrolled in wealthier districts? i never knew that. how come assemblymen and senators agree to that injustice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Quite the opposite. I live in an area with title-1 schools (a certain % of the student body are near the poverty level) and non-title-1 schools. The title-1 schools have TONS of money, beautiful facilities, and can fund all sorts of intervention/aid.

Our non-title-1 school is run-down with no funding for anything beyond basic math and language arts. Art, music, field trips, intervention programs are all either funded by the PTA or other outside sources, or done by parent volunteers.

...

I'd really like to hear from parents who have had children in California's school system and another state's.

My kids are enrolled in the highest-performing school in our county. The school is consistently in the top 10% of CA schools (top 500 or so), and has sometimes ranked in the top 10. It is a "school of choice" where entry is by a lottery system and there is no transportation provided. The school (supposedly) focuses on high-achievers and does not dedicate as much resources to IEP's and remedial learning. So parents are already making an extra effort to enroll and transport their children to this school, which is one of the biggest reasons it has differentiated itself from other, lower-performing, schools.

However, I am extremely unimpressed with both the school and the staff. My complaints:
- The cirriculum is extremely low-level.
- The amount of instructional time seems severely limited, with students out of school for a few days every other week, it seems.
- There is little-to-no communication or coordination with parents, and the school seems terribly disorganized.

If this is one of the best California has, then I think the low ranking isn't skewed by low-performing students, but by a dysfunctional education system.

However, we have only sent our children to school for a few months, and other parents have indicated that our particualr teacher is not good. I do see signs that she is--if not the root of the problem--at least exacerbating the problem.
Also, we are in a modified schedule program instituted in order to meet the demand for this school, so this may cause some of the disorganization, as the schedule does not work well for anyone.
Finally, this is a public, but not a title-1, school, so some of my poor impression is due to a run-down campus and lack of facilities funding, which may not reflect the actual educational environment. I note many shiny new schools/buildings in title-1 areas, however those pretty-looking schools contain severely under-performing student bodies with single-digit proficiencies in math and language arts.

So, my first impression may be mistaken. I will have a better perspective after a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podo944 View Post
I lean slightly conservative/libertarian so vouchers were always a compelling idea. However, if we're doing public education, and that's how it's going to be, then I agree with this. I also think immersion in English before mainstreaming should be a thing. It's how it used to be and it assimilated the immigrant population faster.
My 2 cents
The problem is that any city or county can vote to increase funding for education in a particular city or county district. So, that city or area can collect taxes for better school funding for their schools.

For instance, Folsom, CA. Their high school is insanely more funded and provides way more opportunities and artistic programs than other CA schools do. They have a theater that's so insanely amazing that it's used for top-notch entertainers who come to the area, as a regional top-notch theater for the area/community.

This just goes to show that rich areas are able to provide way better educational opportunities than poor areas are in the state. And that's not right.

What happens to the kids in Lake County, for instance. Or let's say Trinity County or Lassen County?
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:50 PM
 
Location: San Diego
39,930 posts, read 35,695,312 times
Reputation: 24212
San Diego has had the "forced integration" since mid 80s and that's great if you live in a poor area near the border with the illegal immigration cancer. If you can consider anywhere in SD a poor area now. This trashed school scores in most of the schools inside city limits everywhere due to the number of kids of homes with parents that are here illegally. No way would I have even considered sending my kids to the "assigned" schools they had by default because, at the time, neither spoke Spanish. We were forced to play the "Choice" game like everyone else but we had to provide transportation unlike those bused in.

The telling touch was when SD Unified had budget woes, had to scale back on busing and a lot of the classes returned to normal. The protocol for the longest time was instructors had to go at a pace of the slowest student. Typically ESL aka Spanish speakers with parents here illegally. Anyone that volunteered time at local schools got a real education about how this "integration" was working. It wasn't.

This is a big nothing burger for anyone near the border, which is most of all of us. We already knew this. The by product of this was they closed schools that needed the funding near the border. Backwards think. Every day a fleet of hundreds of buses go to the border and back to schools up North.

The cost to taxpayers is staggering.
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