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Old 07-07-2020, 10:16 AM
 
Location: On the water.
20,741 posts, read 13,703,355 times
Reputation: 18550

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
This is possible, but it's pure speculation and, as such, fearmongering. Most people who had chickenpox never get shingles, and most people who get other viruses don't have weird side effects decades later. We have a lot worse things to worry about right now, like the survival of our society. .
There are epidemiologists who disagree with your confidence ... here’s an interview with one just this morning ... you can skip the first 4 and ½ minutes of introductory news if you are interested but in a hurry:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXWEwsJpK_c


Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Viruses aren't sentient, like they might appear in a bad science fiction movie. They can't "figure anything out," and they are subject to survival of the fittest like everything else. A virus that mutates to kill MORE of its hosts is less likely to survive. It needs a host. As a result, virus mutations tend to shift toward less fatal, not more fatal.
Heh. Now who’s assigning sentient qualities?

Diseases DO, in a sense, “figure [some things] out” with regard to their survival. Not sentient rational analysis, but they find their way. That said, they’re not particularly bright or forward thinking. It’s just trial and error. And if they were even slightly hip to the concept of not killing their host, they wouldn’t ... but diseases of course commonly do. Cancer ring a bell?

Oh but you think ‘viruses’ are different (though some cancers appear to have virus components)? Can you link us up to that discovery?

Viruses like all diseases tend to live pretty much in the appetite of the moment ...
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:25 AM
 
13,514 posts, read 9,522,815 times
Reputation: 36129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Heh. Now who’s assigning sentient qualities?

Diseases DO, in a sense, “figure [some things] out” with regard to their survival. Not sentient rational analysis, but they find their way. That said, they’re not particularly bright or forward thinking. And if they were even slightly hip to the concept of not killing their host, they wouldn’t ... but diseases of course commonly do. cancer ring a bell?

Oh but you think ‘viruses’ are different (though some cancers appear to have virus components)? Can you link us up to that discovery?

Viruses like all diseases tend to live pretty much in the appetite of the moment ...
What the heck?! Of course there is nothing sentient about it. Obviously, virus mutations that kill their host quickly don't survive as well as mutations that keep the host alive longer and can therefore infect a greater number of hosts. This is the theory behind natural selection in all species--the ones that survive best become dominant; the others become rare or die out. If you read into this an implication that viruses are sentient, that is your problem, not mine.

And of course cancers are different from viruses. Cancer isn't contagious and isn't a separate entity that needs to continually find new hosts in order to survive. It's just defective cells in a person's own body.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
41,182 posts, read 22,661,108 times
Reputation: 32242
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
This is possible, but it's pure speculation and, as such, fearmongering. Most people who had chickenpox never get shingles, and most people who get other viruses don't have weird side effects decades later. We have a lot worse things to worry about right now, like the survival of our society.

Viruses aren't sentient, like they might appear in a bad science fiction movie. They can't "figure anything out," and they are subject to survival of the fittest like everything else. A virus that mutates to kill MORE of its hosts is less likely to survive. It needs a host. As a result, virus mutations tend to shift toward less fatal, not more fatal.
I disagree, I definitely think this is an issue we should worry about, read this and then tell me is you still think she was 'fear mongering'

Quote:
“If you had asked me a month ago if there was any published evidence that Sars-CoV-2 could cross the blood-brain barrier, I would have said no – but there are now many reports showing that it absolutely can,” says Stevens.

The brain is normally shielded from infectious diseases by what is known as the “blood-brain barrier” – a lining of specialised cells inside the capillaries running through the brain and spinal cord. These block microbes and other toxic agents from infecting the brain.

If Sars-CoV-2 can cross this barrier, it suggests that not only can the virus get into the core of the central nervous system, but also that it may remain there, with the potential to return years down the line.

Though rare, this Lazarus-like behaviour is not unknown among viruses: the chickenpox virus Herpes zoster, for example, commonly infects the nerve cells in the spine, later reappearing in adulthood as shingles – roughly 30% of people who experienced chickenpox in childhood will develop shingles at some point in their lives. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...d-19-infection
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
41,182 posts, read 22,661,108 times
Reputation: 32242
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Viruses aren't sentient, like they might appear in a bad science fiction movie. They can't "figure anything out," and they are subject to survival of the fittest like everything else. A virus that mutates to kill MORE of its hosts is less likely to survive. It needs a host. As a result, virus mutations tend to shift toward less fatal, not more fatal.
I'm not an idiot, the comment that I made was tongue in cheek, I know that viruses aren't sentient
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:37 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,400 posts, read 4,194,668 times
Reputation: 3439
Most people don't get long-term effects from probably anything except bad accidents. However, 30% eventual shingles from chicken pox does not bode well for COVID-19, which looks on its way to infecting most Americans. There are worse things than shingles. HPV, for example, can cause cancer years later. Most viruses can cause long-term complications in people they infect who haven't been effectively vaccinated. The combination of immediate and later problems from viruses is why vaccines have become a major public safety tradition.
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:21 PM
 
Location: California → Tennessee → Ohio
1,604 posts, read 2,853,042 times
Reputation: 1229
With cases surging as of recently, I just did a bit of research regarding CA cities and COVID.

This data is of today.

CA cities with the highest COVID infection rates
El Centro 3968
Hanford 1777
Visalia 1074
Los Angeles 1017
Santa Maria 819
Riverside 772
Fresno 660
Bakersfield 596
Stockton 587
Merced 551
San Diego 509
Modesto 501
Salinas 496
Oxnard 448
San Francisco 448
Vallejo 389
Madera 367
Napa 317
San Jose 286
Santa Rosa 275
San Luis Obispo 270
Sacramento 265
Yuba City 216
Santa Cruz 168
Chico 122
Redding 87

CA cities with the highest COVID death rates
El Centro 65
Los Angeles 30
Visalia 29
Hanford 24
Riverside 16
San Diego 12
Bakersfield 9
Fresno 8
Modesto 8
San Francisco 8
San Jose 8
Stockton 7
Oxnard 6
Santa Maria 6
Vallejo 6
Sacramento 5
Merced 4
Madera 3
Napa 3
Salinas 3
Yuba City 3
Redding 2
Santa Rosa 2
Chico 1
San Luis Obispo 1
Santa Cruz 1
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:26 PM
 
2,198 posts, read 1,458,591 times
Reputation: 1859
The virus that causes Chicken Pox and Shingles is from what I understand, a DNA virus.....unlike COVID. Zoster virus (Chicken Pox) is a Herpes virus and your body never gets rid of a Herpes family virus. Another member of that virus family is virus that causes mononucleosis (one nickname for that illness is "the kissing disease")


"Herpesviruses are highly prevalent viruses that establish a lifelong persistent infection in the host. It was thought most immunocompetent individuals do not succumb to overt virus-associated disease, but evidence is building that herpesviruses may contribute to many disease states previously not associated with these viruses, including vascular diseases."


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics.../herpesviridae
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Ca expat loving Idaho
5,080 posts, read 3,530,319 times
Reputation: 7847
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Whenever I see a poster reference herd immunity as a way out of this I instantly dismiss them as ignorant.
6448 known positive symptomatic cases in Ca today and I’m the ignorant one that thinks this virus can be controlled.....
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:42 PM
 
13,514 posts, read 9,522,815 times
Reputation: 36129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finper View Post
6448 known positive symptomatic cases in Ca today and I’m the ignorant one that thinks this virus can be controlled.....
Where do you get the information about whether confirmed cases are symptomatic or not?
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
41,182 posts, read 22,661,108 times
Reputation: 32242
So now it looks like El Dorado County is going to get shut down and guess why? Idiots want to get cozy on the beach without masks, isn't that special?


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