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Old 10-22-2020, 04:43 PM
 
545 posts, read 513,600 times
Reputation: 817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I think it depends upon how you define "freedom". If you're talking about freedom of a woman to choose what to do with her body, freedom to have public healthcare and not be turned away with pre-existing conditions, freedom to feel its not a free for all wrt gun regulation for some comfort/safety, freedom to know that there's environmental protections to ensure the safety/well being of citizens into the future, freedom as an employee to have greater rights vs other states, freedom to vote whether by mail or in person with no silly restrictions, freedom to know the government puts health/science first when developing COVID policy, etc., Californians very much have a hunger for freedom.
What you are talking about is not freedom. It is security.

You want life to be made safe and easy

I don't.

Like I said, you will never get me and vice versa
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:50 PM
 
Location: A Place With REAL People
3,260 posts, read 6,758,372 times
Reputation: 5105
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I think it depends upon how you define "freedom". If you're talking about freedom of a woman to choose what to do with her body, freedom to have public healthcare and not be turned away with pre-existing conditions, freedom to feel its not a free for all wrt gun regulation for some comfort/safety, freedom to know that there's environmental protections to ensure the safety/well being of citizens into the future, freedom as an employee to have greater rights vs other states, freedom to vote whether by mail or in person with no silly restrictions, freedom to know the government puts health/science first when developing COVID policy, etc., Californians very much have a hunger for freedom.
That is pretty much the definition of "Socialism". Guess you got what you're looking for. Now please do keep it there thank you
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:52 PM
 
545 posts, read 513,600 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
I am going to have to mildly disagree there.

I think most all people want freedom, but not everybody wants the same form.

The people happy in California and attracted here want a lot of individual libertarian social freedom. Examples would be abortion, homosexuality, and legalized drug use. They don't see big government as a loss of freedom.

The people dying to leave Calfornia for non-financial reasons value traditional freedom free of government oppression and regulation. They want libertarian govenrmental freedom. Examples would be low taxes, right to work, school choice, and firearms ownership.

I think we all want freedom, but it means something different to differnent people. The people happy in California need a different form of freedom than the people fleeing California.
That's not "freedom"

That is being forced to accept homosexuality, for example, under threat of a lawsuit or being charged with a crime or fined.

How is that "freedom"? Freedom is if I don't like homosexuality or drug use, I have a right to shun it or scorn it, and if some gay guy doesn't like a church lady and doesn't want to have evangelicals dictating what he can and can't do then he gets the same leeway. Live and let live. Keep government out of it.

That's freedom

That is how America is supposed to work. And how it used to work. How any normal country works. If you don't like the liberalism of a city, or the libertine nature of it, get out. And if you don't lie the straight-laced nature of the rural communities, go back to the city. Not making a federal case out of everything

All of these laws are crushing freedom, despite their supposed good intentions
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,249 posts, read 1,053,592 times
Reputation: 4430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
What you are talking about is not freedom. It is security.

You want life to be made safe and easy

I don't.

Like I said, you will never get me and vice versa

That's your opinion. A lot of us see the value in a proactive state government.


Scratch beneath the surface of every self-proclaimed "rugged individualist" and you'll usually find someone with a ton of inheritance, a government pension, a trust fund baby, a person who got lucky in property value, or someone who has a "safety net" of many connections that can bolster their chances at success.
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,566,000 times
Reputation: 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
Wisconsin is beautiful, but...

Ranks 7th on the Thrillist of States with Most Miserable Winters.

That is a pretty dang high ranking for long, dreary winter misery. I am becoming more cold intolerant as I age.

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nat...tes-for-winter


Ranked #7 here as well.

I mean, when your winters are worse than Montana and Idaho, you know you are in trouble.

The best you can say about it is, "at least we are better than North Dakota."

https://tiphero.com/top-10-worst-winters
Wisconsin has an incredible amount to do outdoors in the winter, extensive trail systems, deep consistent snow cover, and lakes that freeze over entirely. There is no such thing as cold weather, just inferior winter gear. The highest quality of life rural area with the most lakes is Vilas County. It is a resort area with over 1,300 lakes and a median house price under $300,000. Lots of people remote work there or are retired. Yes, it is cold in the winter, averaging around 100 inches of snowfall. Temperatures on average are around 12F in January, but I have seen high temperatures as warm as 40F and as cold as -40F. Summer is fantastic with 75 degree high temperatures and low humidity.
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:57 PM
 
Location: A Place With REAL People
3,260 posts, read 6,758,372 times
Reputation: 5105
Indeed it's a way that is now being shoved down our throats. The laws are becoming "you either do THIS or you will suffer the consequences" which is NOT fundamentally "freedom". You are NOT entitled to live how you wish. It goes both ways. Just because you do NOT want to accept how others are living it's as if they have to be forced to accept you.........just keep moving. It always was that way but now they want to make us conform.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Northern California
130,180 posts, read 12,093,129 times
Reputation: 39033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
That's not "freedom"

That is being forced to accept homosexuality, for example, under threat of a lawsuit or being charged with a crime or fined.

How is that "freedom"? Freedom is if I don't like homosexuality or drug use, I have a right to shun it or scorn it, and if some gay guy doesn't like a church lady and doesn't want to have evangelicals dictating what he can and can't do then he gets the same leeway. Live and let live. Keep government out of it.

That's freedom

That is how America is supposed to work. And how it used to work. How any normal country works. If you don't like the liberalism of a city, or the libertine nature of it, get out. And if you don't lie the straight-laced nature of the rural communities, go back to the city. Not making a federal case out of everything

All of these laws are crushing freedom, despite their supposed good intentions
I live in California & I don't ask anyone what they belive in, nor do I ask what their sexual desires are. I also have not been asked these questions. I don't care what others do, as long as they are not hurting anyone. I really don't understand why people are so upset at what others think. Live & let live. If my neighbors want to fly a Trump flag or a Biden one, I don't care, they do what they want.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,249 posts, read 1,053,592 times
Reputation: 4430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
That's not "freedom"

That is being forced to accept homosexuality, for example, under threat of a lawsuit or being charged with a crime or fined.

How is that "freedom"? Freedom is if I don't like homosexuality or drug use, I have a right to shun it or scorn it, and if some gay guy doesn't like a church lady and doesn't want to have evangelicals dictating what he can and can't do then he gets the same leeway. Live and let live. Keep government out of it.

That's freedom

Accepting a person's sexual orientation shouldn't be any more of an issue than accepting them because of their biological eye color, hair color or other physical characteristics. If you cannot accept one solitary aspect of someone's physical nature, than you probably aren't worth having as a friend in the first place. I have lesbian friends and co-workers and their lesbianism is never an issue. It's just one small aspect of who they are.



Unfortunately, the scenario you pose about having evangelicals dictate to LGBT people, and being offered the same leeway, is not the case at all and hasn't been the case historically. Gay people, and sometimes lesbians, often get run out of small towns in rural areas in certain parts of the country by no choice of their own, sadly. They also have no recourse, or very little, and the structure of the place they live is one that is antithetical to their very existence.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,249 posts, read 1,053,592 times
Reputation: 4430
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcisive View Post
That is pretty much the definition of "Socialism". Guess you got what you're looking for. Now please do keep it there thank you

What you call "socialism" is likely what is coming within the next 10-20 years. It's inevitable. Get used to it. It's not "socialism", actually, but that is the popular buzzword on the right for a government that works for ALL of its people.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:36 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,723 posts, read 26,798,919 times
Reputation: 24785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
What you are talking about is not freedom. It is security.

You want life to be made safe and easy
You've got it mixed up. The government taking over women's reproductive rights, allowing only certain people to have affordable health care, requiring little or no gun regulation, having no assurance of a planet that will be inhabitable by future generations, and putting restrictions on who may vote are what's "safe and easy."
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