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03-09-2007, 05:33 PM
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 On that note, as far as schools in California go, I don't know if you've noticed, but the school system nationwide is pretty broken. The best thing you can hope for in a school is a place where you know your children will be safe from gang violence, child molestors, and possibly learn something along the way. Southern California, for the most part, is not really the place to go for that, especially not the Greater L.A. Area. Anywhere in that region is not the place to go. Central/Northern California, because of it's rural roots, major food growing and production, is still at least decent, with access to almost every climate you can think of within easy driving distance. California does have a ton of issues. It's very expensive to live here, and people who move away generally don't move back for the main reason that they can't afford to. Really, the only people moving into CA at this point are the people from the DEEP SOUTH, if you catch my drift. I'm currently living in Modesto, CA, and have been for the past six years. Prior to that, I lived in the stinking hellhole of the High Desert, and the (at the time) mild Simi Valley. Modesto holds titles touting the Worst Air Quality, not only in CA, but in the US, as well as the Car Theft Capitol of the Nation. Over the past 6 years, we've had two high-profile murder cases originating on our very doorsteps. I myself lived 2 blocks from Scott and Laci Peterson, and frequented the park where she was last seen. Despite these facts, if given the choice, I don't think I'd rather live anyplace else, in or out of California. There's plenty of work in town and with commuter public transportation to the Bay Area. The weather is moderate and beautiful year-round, it has a nice proximity of metropolitan needs, luxuries, and lifestyle, to rural living, peace, and quiet. There's access to any kind of recreational activity you can think of within reasonable driving distance (the ocean two hours to the west, and snowy slopes an hour to the east). we purchased our five bedroom house plus swimming pool for 450,000 in a nice neighborhood, have four cars, and two close schools quite recently built which score very highly on the statewide ranking that everyone cares so much about. We've never had our house broken into or a car stolen, gangs apparently exist, but it's more posturing than real violence like in L.A. My mother is a part-time Loan Officer and self-employed businesswoman with a health product company, my step-father is a Knuckle-breaking Carpenter, and there's always food on the table for all four children. I pay my way through Modesto Junior College and Modesto Flight School with my job as an Operator, as well as paying rent to the household, and we live quite comfortably without the aid of state agencies. Since I am only twenty-summers young and was very, very close to failing High School, what I've said will probably be brushed off as inexperienced, one-sided views from a completely oblivious pseudo-college student who lives the "wine and roses" life. I don't know about the rest of you, but my parents never left me in the dark about our family's trials and tribulations. There were no "keeping secrets for the sake of the kids," or, "He's too young to understand that." I was a very inquisitive child growing up, and I had a knack for asking all the wrong questions at the wrong times. We didn't always live so well. Prior to moving out of the High Desert, we were on welfare and social security. My parents divorced abruptly, my mother was a Methamphetamine addict, and regular domestic violence between her and my step-dad were frequent. Only after getting out of that area did things improve, and greatly at that. No drugs, no violence, no more state help, no more being afraid to go to school, and best of all, no more God-forsaken desert dirt. So, I think that a lot of the negativity about California really depends on where you've been, and whether or not you're willing to see that it's not the entire state to blame, it's specific areas that overshadow the others. The many being tainted by the few. Daily online, I'm asked by people from other states if I'm afraid of being shot, or if I can hardly breathe the air, or if there's gangbangers doing drive-by's at my neighbors. The answer to these? No. To agree with wifmmmy, what really concerns me is our flawed education system. I barely passed High School despite my test scores that said I was in the top percentile, despite scoring well above average on my SAT. The reason for this, is that schools are indeed just pushing kids through the system just to keep them moving up through the system and get them out. The weight of tests on your grade is extremely minimal, while mundane homework makes up virtually 90% of your grade. This means that if you spend 2-3 hours a night (7-8 hours if you're in AP classes) mindlessly copying information from a book and turning it in, no matter the quality, you pretty much have a guaranteed B or A, no matter what you score when they test whether or not you've learned anything. If you fail, you can retake usually limitless times. I sat next to kids in class my senior year who couldn't read proficiently from a book that wasn't even close to a 9th grade level, couldn't spell, displayed horrible grammar, bombed their tests, and yet still passed with grades higher than a C+ because they turned in all their homework and did their Senior Project on installing a car stereo or changing their oil. Even if you do fail a grade, they still move you on up, for the districts get less money for held-back students because it shows they aren't doing their jobs. This issue is not isolated to CA, it's nationwide, and that's what scares me. Many people I went to school with who passed with good grades but still don't know a thing about our history and can't speak or write proficiently have been accepted to and are currently attending colleges to gain degrees in fields that directly affect the health, safety, and infrastructure of our daily lives. It doesn't matter anymore what you really know, or how intelligent you really are, all that matters is the records from this broken system saying you've completed their pre-established requirements. A nation of illiterate, mindless workaholics marching from our schools, to vote on important issues regarding ourselves and our future children without really understanding what they're voting on, and electing public officials to run our government without looking far into each candidate, just knowing that it's their duty to vote one way or the other, usually depending on whatever political party they're associated with. That's the reason we have our bi-partisan system, to keep the ignorant masses voting by giving them something to base their votes on without really examining it. It's also an attempt to keep everyone happy by pushing both sides of an issue and not leaving anyone feeling unrepresented, even though it usually ends up causing animosity between the people, which doesn't really promote unity. (Ex. Republicans vs. Democrats, Liberals vs. Conservatives, Minority vs. Majority.) The current trend of not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, even those who legally don't have the right to make decisions in our government and are breaking the law in being here (To be coarse, illegal immigrants), or those who were oppressed or treated unfairly and fought for the same rights as everyone else, has allowed sensitive racial groups to use their easily offended status as a foothold for extra leverage, inside and outside the government. I'm not one for racism or discrimination, but why exactly is it taboo or offensive for me to show any sort of affection or enjoyment of being a White person? Why am I instantly a racist, Nazi, etc. the second I display any pride for my own race? Why are racial slurs for White/Caucasian people considered unoffensive? Do I not have the same rights as every other citizen? If this is true, then why does race matter to the government? Why do they ask my race on every school form and federal form that I fill out? Do other races get something special that I do not? This internal trend or policy of "Political Correctness" is something similar to what we've seen before, and recently. If you remember Britain's Appeasement foreign policy, it didn't work too well. Unfortunately, if you ask an average high school graduate about Britain's Pre-WWII foreign policy, they won't have a clue. How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't know our history? How can we stop history repeating itself if we don't see it coming? Maybe I'm just bitter. Maybe I'm just biased. It could be that I'm seeing "glass truths" created by the early adulthood delusion that I know everything. That my relatively short list of life experiences is unable to provide me with the wherewithal to see through the glass to the reality. Maybe that same short list is actually allowing me to see clearer because it hasn't been mucked up by bitter hindsight and expected disappointment. Maybe I'm just nuts. I hope all who read this will feel a little bit more secure knowing that there are SOME in the youth of today who still may not know the real truths, but at least care enough about the country, our rights, and our future to at least attempt to seek information for ourselves, question our leaders and laws, and speak up if we don't agree, instead of just doing what our party or the media says we should, or allowing our rights to be trod upon. We are the citizens of this country, we decide our own level of involvement. If we want to have things the way we, the people, desire, we have to know and understand what we're voting on to ensure our decisions are informed and accurately heard. We cannot do this as a nation if our education system continues the way it is. I've gone way off track with this, but I think it would be a waste of time to just delete it. To come back to my original point, I think that there are certain, if not many, areas of California that are or have declined into an unpleasant, even unlivable state. However, there are still bastions of the sought after and once widely available California Dreams holding out against the inevitable. California isn't the only state that has problems, every single state in the nation has it's supporters and non-supporters, each it's own issues and problem spots. We may not be able to recover what we've lost, but the least I can do is not give up on trying to keep what we have. Edit: This post is not a flame post, it is not a rebuttal, it is not meant to disprove or deny anything anyone has posted. It is merely a communication of my feelings and opinions regarding this state and our country as a whole. If I offend anyone, it wasn't intentional. Last edited by DrKenneth; 03-09-2007 at 06:55 PM. |
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03-09-2007, 08:00 PM
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well there is no getting around it. california is going to have a disasterous quake. its only a matter of time. same with the pacific northwest. I understand the amnesia that goes along with not having had one for a while, being busy with life. but its a statistical fact. who needs to wait for the state to erode over a 20 year period? the quake will do it overnight. its no different than waiting for the hurricane to hit New Orleans. after the northridge quake, you couldn't give a house away. it took a long time for amnesia to set back in. I finally decided it was just too big a financial risk to live in CA. so I moved.
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03-09-2007, 11:28 PM
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first off thank you for saying that my post is readable and credible lol. sometimes i question it lol i think yours was well thought out and had good points and truths which i agree with. as for this not being a rebuttal well i couldnt help but see many references that were in my post but hey i digress  as for the one sided view remark i say in my post and you repeat. the original poster that i was responding to said that and i used it to show their own remarks back to them. cuz from what i got from their post was also a one sided view with rose colored glasses. as for age i dont think that age is always a cause for discounting or dismissing someone. but in the original post there were def remarks from someone that had not actually lived with alot of the issues that people here on the board are discussing. talking about the stats on home sales but yet forgets to mention or perhaps didnt know about all the foreclosures as a result. their post was claiming that mostly the environment and real estate was the reason for people leaving or complaining. that is simply not the case. all i feel i did was point out that raising a family will open your eyes to things that you never noticed before. and i stand by that still. i also state many times in my post that i dont think that some of these issues are solely in california but this is a cali board so that is what we talk about. i also say that its not all over the state. there are parts that are better education and crime wise but you got to pay through the nose for it. i am happy for you and i truly hope you achieve everything that you strive for. good luck and God bless |
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03-10-2007, 12:08 AM
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Thank you for the kind reply. I realized after reading it over the first time that it did seem like a rebuttal or attack, which is why I tried to clarify in the edit. The reason yours were used was because they just happened to be stems from which this grew. I admit that my original intent in clicking the quote button was a rebuttal, but once I got the words flowing it became something different, and I tried to keep moving without changing too much.
I agree, raising a family and growing older can't help but alter your views and opinions. It's part of being a member of human society. Maybe my thoughts will differ in the future. I can almost rest assured they will, we become new people every day we live. We can really only give one-sided views on things. The only view we have is our own, it's the only one we can communicate with conviction. Growing up with my generation whose opinions are mainly expressed via a medium where you almost never know a person's age, I have a hard time factoring age into anyone's viewpoint. My mother on the other hand, having grown up more face to face, as her parents before her, age is a very large factor, especially considering the experiences that generation and the previous one went through, and the weight one will have vs the other one. It's been pretty unconsciously planted that a persons age directly relates to what level they are informed and to how well they can listen and understand. We in fact had a conversation about the very thing not 40 mins ago, where I became quite frustrated that I wasn't able to completely convey my point due to interruptions. It's why I prefer text, at least then I can communicate my thoughts as they stand without having to respond to input sporadically throughout. Good luck in the future, and good health to yourself and your family. |
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03-10-2007, 02:00 AM
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misunderstood
Sorry but I believe my post was misunderstood. It wasn't meant as a rejection of the statements before me. Instead, as I state before hand, to inform others on how our state IS trying to change and is improving, and how California still can be the gate to the American Dream.
I know of the violence that some people have to live with. Especially in areas like compton, east LA, north Long Beach, San Bernardino, Oakland, and many parts of LA. My family lived in north Long Beach for about a year. My mom utterly hated living there because of the gang violence...and because she was working all the time, she didn't feel safe with us being home alone after school. So we packed and moved to the La Palma/Cerritos/Buena Park area. There is a major difference. I personally choose not to travel to LA, and try to avoid it as much as possible. When I go to concerts I go all the way down to San Diego even though its further away from me because I feel safer, especially late at night when concerts tend to end. I also don't like LA, especially downtown LA, LA the city (not like West Hollywood and such) because of the pollution and congestion. I'm also very much aware of the state of our public schools. Not only are we experiencing ridiculous drop out rights (especially within the Hispanic and Black populations), but many of us who graduate SHOULDNT have, nontheless go to college. This two things by themselves are very critical. Hispanics (majority of Mexican descent) make up about 1/3rd of our population. Therefore if California wants to keep bringing businesses in the advance sectors (like engineering and medicine) this population must start graduating in higher numbers, and attending college to obtain the neccessary skills needed for the jobs that we are producing. We must also understand though, that many of this students come from families where the mom and dad have little to no educational experience at all. The majority of Mexicans who cross the border are the ones from the poorest of the poorest states, from the bottom pit of socio-economic levels in Mexico. This are people, who if lucky, got an 8th grade education. This are the ignored and forgotten people of Mexico. This are people that the Mexican government ignores until they start sending money back to Mexico. This are also people that are very much look down upon by much of Mexican society. "Chicano" is a deragatory word in Mexico. The majority of this Mexicans also have stronger are indigenous blood, or are simply completely indigenous and not mestizo. This is because Mexico at its core is still a very racist society, even though it might not be as straightforward and blunt as American racism. Therefore the whiter you are and look, the more likely it is that you'll get a job, the more likely it is that you'll go to college, and the more likely you'll have a much better standard of living. My mom, my sister, and me, did not come to California because we were living in poverty or were under dire circumstances. There is a small Mexican middle class, but, nontheless, we were part of that Mexican middle class, and much of our family, part of the upperclass. On my dad's side all my uncles and aunts went to college, and got their masters, and a few went on to get their M.D. or PHD. This is true for my mom's as well. My uncles in Mexico are very well educated and knowledgeable about world politics, science, culture...etc. All my cousins in Mexico that are around my age are going to college. A few have already graduated from medical school, and two are planning to attend law school. I must also point out that in Mexico I am considered creole. Basically one that is of european stock. My father's side is French, and my mother's side is Spanish. I am not proud of this. There is much racism in my family's history, and some of that racism is still very much present in my family today, even though they are not as willing to admit. At one point in my life I used to have a strong dislike for Mexicans who did bad, for the Mexicans involved in gangs and street violence, for all the Mexicans I felt made me and my family look bad. I asked myself questions like "Why can't they do good in school, and stop being such idiots?". I was in AP classes in high school, and I really hated being told things like "are you sure you're Mexican... but how are you doing well in school?!". For being light skinned Mexicans, both me and my sister were riduculed in high school by other Mexicans for not being Mexican enough like "them". I ignored them though because in my head I didn't considered them Mexican anyways...especially since the majority of Mexicans in American high schools are American born, don't speak proper Spanish, nor do they have a clue of what Mexico is really about. I wasn't the only white Mexican in my high school, there are plenty of us everywhere...except that most of us don't make a point at making it obvious. My first years in college weren't that different. Though I noticed that there were more light skinned latinos in my classes than brown latinos. Even so, the majority of the Latino groups on compass are made up of mostly brown Latinos, who are outspoken about their brown pride. In latino magazines, they are quick to recognize achievements of brown latinos but ignored those of their light skinned brothers and sisters. Actresses like Alexis Bledel (from Gilmore Girls) who first language is Spanish, and is of Mexican and Argentinian descent are put to the side and simply considered "white." At first, stuff like this made me angry because to me to be Latino is not to be brown, but to be part of the culture. Latinos have ancestries from all over the world (the middle east, africa, europe, asia, amerindian) and therefore can't be taken as just one race. Though I still feel somewhat unaccepted by my own community, I've come to understand why things are how they are. The Latino community in the United States is made up mostly of those who were rejected and ignored in their country of ancestry (Cubans aside). Therefore many times, the progress of brown latinos in America is seen as progress for mestizos and indigenous people in Latin America. All this is important to understand so that we can fully comprehend the context under which the families that come over to the United States, lived in Mexico, and why many Mexican Americans are failing to catch up to their white and Asian counterparts, especially in the realm of education. This is simply that families don't know how to go about it because they don't have experience with it, and, in Mexico, hadn't ever been given that opportunity. I, nor my family, am not representative of the Mexican community in America. Not only do we come from a different state (in northern Mexico, as oppose to the majority who come from the south), but we also come from a different socio-economic status, and with different levels of education. I can not say I understand the injustices that many Mexicans have lived with in Mexico. My family definitely can not say that we understand the poverty and their NEED to come to America. My mom didn't have a need to come here, she simply had the desire. I fell in love with California because I fell in love w/ Disneyland, and my mom with the shopping. A lot of my family over there wouldn't even think about moving here. They love their life and are more than comfortable where they are. They probably live a much more comfortable life than us simply because life there is much much cheaper. My family over there even takes more vacations and has a more leisurely life than we do. They claim that we work too much (like typical Californians) and spend very little time enjoying ourselves. I was considering moving back to Mexico after I graduated high school but didn't because I just love California's weather, diversity (geographic + people), and culture. Not to mention that I'm vegan and I would miss my thai, indian, and arabic food wayyy tooo much. lolx. Also my major is biochemistry, and I wouldn't have much success getting a job over there in my major besides probably in the lines of agriculture or as a professor at a university. Most of the research in Mexico is done either in Monterrey or Mexico City...neither of which I'm interested in. California, on the other hand, has a huge need for biochemists. I digress though. The point is that its very easy to blame the state of our worst public schools with the people who are occupying them, who are mostly Mexicans, instead of looking at all the factors involved in proper education. We have to find ways to prepare Hispanic and black parents for their childrens education, they must understand that they need to be more involved, and we must also educate them on why it is important for their children to go to college, even though they might want to take them out of school and into the workforce for the much needed income. I'm not saying that we should open doors for them even if they don't meet the requirements (like affirimitive action does), but that we should provide the conditions for them to be ABLE to meet the requirements and be adequately prepared for college and the workforce. As it is right now, colleges are being overrun with students who are not prepared for a college level course and therefore, colleges, have to invest in courses like pre-algebra and basic english grammar because their high schools failed to adequately prepare them. God bless California for our community colleges (which are truly the gateways of opportunity), but even those are over crowded with students who have the desire to go to college but definitely don't come close to being prepare for it. In the schools around my area, if you are not in honors courses then you are basically ignored. Counselors don't advise non honors kids on what they need to get to UCLA or Stanford, they advise them on different community colleges . They don't tell them that they should aim for B's or A's, they tell them that a C average is all they need to graduate. I don't know what the solution to the problem is, but I do recognize that it needs to change, not just in California, but in the nation in general (possibly excluding New Jersey who seems to be getting things right). Thankfully California has an excellent higher education system with the community college, calstates, and UCs...as well as many excellent private colleges (CalTech, Stanford, the Claremont colleges, USC). But our k-12 is horrendous, and colleges shouldn't need to put that much work in re-educating (which is what they're doing) their students. I would also like to point out that I understand the need for some families to move out of California. My aunt and uncle are relocating their family to Amarillo, Texas. Simply because the area where they are right now is crime ridden and they don't want to wait until house prices go down to buy a home in a decent area, with possibly a somewhat decent school. The area where they bhought their new home in Texas is really safe and family oriented. Their children will also be attending some of the best schools in the state. I'm happy for them because I know that their children will be safer, and that they will get the education that they deserve (they're brilliant kids). Though its gonna be hard for me to not laugh when they start saying "howdy". =D Nontheless, with all of its problems, I still believe California has plenty to offer, and I'm willing to stay here and fight to make it better. California has had a lot of firsts in its lifetime, and it has created a lot of progressive policy that has been imitated by the rest of the nation. We've done a lot for this nation when it comes to terms of social justice, environmentalism, technology, and medicine. Now, we must revolutionize education. |
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03-10-2007, 01:34 PM
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I am sure that your original post was not meant to be a rejection of the prior statements. but if you look at the post again you will see it appears to look like it - that is why I posted as I did. so on my end I apologize if I appeared harsh or rude cuz I certainly never try to be rude cuz there is no point to it and nobody will listen. the violence issues that you address I think are part of the reasons for posters on here. they that live in it need to inform those that really don't know how bad it is in some areas and even in the surrounding areas. example I remember 25 years ago when I was 10 that cerritos was in the "rich" part of town. lol well we lived in artesia at the time so you can see why we called it that lol. anyway we went to the plunge and saw the first time ever a gang fight. cerritos and buena park were really well kept areas and now over time has gotten some really bad parts. of course there are some really nice areas but the bad parts are slowly bleeding into the nicer areas. even around knotts as far as going further away for concerts I completely understand and we would go to Irvine for the same reason. I loved the forum but boy was it scary sometimes at night. and don't get me started on the sports arena. lol The education system I think I can safely say we ALL agree there are serious issues there that should be addressed across the nation but as far as California, I believe it can do more but doesn't for one political reason or another. the problems in Mexico basically speak for themselves. my husband comes from basically a middle class family in Mexico and came here when he was 17 to make something of himself cuz Mexico life was limited for him. and yes you can do that here in calif if you work hard ( never denied that) he is the "baby" of 10 and he has gone from working as a janitor to a very good truck driver. but even as we go higher there is a ceiling of progress that we can not break through staying in California. we are middle class here in California and barely making it month to month. Quote:
my husband and I have thought the same thing but not just about Mexicans but all races cuz all races are involved in gang activities. but I will admit I hate when we hear about a Mexican or even Latino ( cuz society seems to link them altogether if you speak spanish you must be the same or you must be Mexican kind of attitude) doing a crime cuz then my husband who is now 32 never been in any crime whatsoever is looked upon like he knew the dude or related to him or something. Imo that's ignorance. in my opinion it is not just the lack of education that gets these kids there its the lack of parenting as well poor or otherwise. some are hard working parents and don't tell me they don't see the rags and clothes and attitudes of these kids at home. if they allow it than they are too blame in some of this. again this goes to all races not just one or two. Quote:
those people that even had half a nerve to say that to you were ignorant, racist, and just plain idiots ( whew I got to calm down lol ) Quote:
prejudice on either end is not ok. whether they not thinking your Mexican enough or you not thinking they were. where is the progress in this thought? if our youth can get a better train of thought more might be accomplished. the reason I say youth is cuz the adults already have there minds set on what is right or wrong - might not be reasonable but hey what can I say lol those kids that don't know what Mexico is really like or don't speak spanish like they do in Mexico although even that runs across the board in different areas of Mexico.... that is the parents fault for not teaching it to their kids. telling stories of what its really like etc. before I say this don't feel the need to respond cuz I know there was no ill will so I am just a loving aunt and momma lol that wants to speak out so let me vent lol in a side note - I personally kind of take offense with the idea that those kids born here from two Mexican parents are any less Mexican heart than their parents. my nieces and nephews are just as much of Mexico heart as their parents. as with my son I am white and my husband is Mexican and to us he is just as much Mexican heart as anybody else. he has my husbands blood running through him and yes his skin is white but he is no less a beautiful Mexican AND American boy. and that is what I mark on his ethnic group when asked. so I say this with love for them and for you mija for making it through all the obstacles that were against you Quote:
I know there are many here on this board that DO blame "the illegals" - "the immigrants"- " the Mexicans" whatever they choose to call them in a lot of cases is based around prejudiced racist ideals. so I try to ignore them now ----but I don't blame that as the reason. to me and again this is MY opinion that its a liberal let everybody be everybody ACLU kind of attitude. Quote:
in my opinion a lot of the people leaving are families that have children in the k-12 schools. that is a major reason we are leaving. perhaps when the children are of college age they will return but it doesn't look like the schools are improving for now. |
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03-10-2007, 01:38 PM
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Since the signing of NAFTA and the Bush Administrations open border policy and mexi-socialist politics, we are a third world country.
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03-10-2007, 01:38 PM
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you had a well thought out - smart post all i can say is no harm no foul. good luck and keep fighting for your point of view with your family lol you'll get it out eventually lol |
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03-10-2007, 01:46 PM
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with all do respect the issues of this state and country were going on long before bush came into office and NAFTA |
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03-11-2007, 04:06 PM
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You can go to many places where you don't think you are in the U.S. it looks like you crossed over the border into mexico. This country is going to be lost if something isn't done. |
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