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Old 06-13-2008, 12:19 AM
 
189 posts, read 223,738 times
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Default Water shortages = drought?

So, I've been hearing in the papers and also on the news about water shortages right now, at least in NoCal, and that is likely the cause of some droughts up here. Here's the article (well, batch of articles):

Sacramento and Northern California drought and water conservation information

One of them warns that if there is another dry winter, things are likely to be much worse next year. What are your thoughts? More importantly, what will happen?
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:11 AM
Status: "Isn't 16000 joints per year enough for you?" (set 10 days ago)
 
520 posts, read 1,168,688 times
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I live right next to Lake Shasta... its going down already. never reaching capacity from dropping 180 feet last year, by summers end underwater obstructions that hadnt been seen in 25 years were readily apparent, many boat launch ramps closed ..some marinas had to close or move entire operations.. snow on Lassen is already gone (on good water years you cant even get into the park until late july because of snow) Shasta is already brown patching

Lake Oroville, a major source of drinking water filled by the feather river, has also stopped coming up.. already beginning to drop at 6 inches a day... in good years this doesnt happen until late summer

What will happen.. rationing... water police, the dyed lawns will spring up, Santa Barbaras desal plant will be un-mothballed, if it hasnt been dismantled

Bella Vista water (my water company) has already put a mandatory 25 percent reduction in water use from last years use rate,, or be fined

And yet we still send water to the southern california desert where people water lawns

too many people.. to few resources... you can live without designer shoes... but you cant live without water... We must seek zero population growth as a planet and stop popping out rugrats
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Lakewood, CA
35 posts, read 85,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post

And yet we still send water to the southern california desert where people water lawns
Gov. Edmund Brown Sr. approved the State Water Project that moves water from Oroville to Perris because he "did not want those people moving to Northern Calif". Those people being us in So. Calif. So, pick your poison.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra56 View Post
Gov. Edmund Brown Sr. approved the State Water Project that moves water from Oroville to Perris because he "did not want those people moving to Northern Calif". Those people being us in So. Calif. So, pick your poison.
I would, except SoCal is not exactly a reasonable place to live financially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
too many people.. to few resources... you can live without designer shoes... but you cant live without water... We must seek zero population growth as a planet and stop popping out rugrats
Overpopulation always seems to be behind everything that's bad right now, doesn't it? But how can we seek zero population growth without resorting to murder (which would decrease the population quickly)?
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Rolando, San Diego CA 92115
7,129 posts, read 18,114,861 times
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Well notmeofficer had me up until the end there.

In my opinion the water, fire, police and road infrastructure issues are the biggest issues facing CA today. And really these have become national issues. I would expect the next president (Rep or Dem) to introduce some sort of massive infrastructure bond to help upgrade these systems.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
In my opinion the water, fire, police and road infrastructure issues are the biggest issues facing CA today. And really these have become national issues. I would expect the next president (Rep or Dem) to introduce some sort of massive infrastructure bond to help upgrade these systems.
And yet, why do I get the feeling that the next president will do nothing of the sort to address the issue? Given all the flooding occurring in the Midwest, you'd think they would be generous and actually transfer some of the extra water to states that need water, not just California, but any states that haven't been rained on lately.

On the other hand, haven't we had these issues before (i.e., surely there were droughts of this type in NoCal before, haven't there?)? I mean, it's not like water here, once it's gone, it's gone forever, is there? Isn't water cyclical?
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Rolando, San Diego CA 92115
7,129 posts, read 18,114,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHarrington View Post
And yet, why do I get the feeling that the next president will do nothing of the sort to address the issue? Given all the flooding occurring in the Midwest, you'd think they would be generous and actually transfer some of the extra water to states that need water, not just California, but any states that haven't been rained on lately.

On the other hand, haven't we had these issues before (i.e., surely there were droughts of this type in NoCal before, haven't there?)? I mean, it's not like water here, once it's gone, it's gone forever, is there? Isn't water cyclical?
Well whether or not you believe that global warming is caused by humans it appears that we are in a warming trend right now and if it is part of a cycle, it at least appears that is not one that cycles within our lifetime.

My guess is that once the war is ended the president will free up funds to the states, most of that will go into transportation and water infrastructure. The logistics of a national water-sharing system seem pretty hard to grapple with, but I see things like desalinization taking hold in areas like SoCal.
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:41 AM
 
189 posts, read 223,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
Well whether or not you believe that global warming is caused by humans it appears that we are in a warming trend right now and if it is part of a cycle, it at least appears that is not one that cycles within our lifetime.
Well, to be honest, I'm grappling with whether or not global warming is caused by humans right now.

Quote:
My guess is that once the war is ended the president will free up funds to the states, most of that will go into transportation and water infrastructure.
If the war ever does come to an end, but I doubt it will anytime soon...
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:44 AM
 
1,309 posts, read 3,872,943 times
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Water is following the same market trajectory that petroleum has, and "peak water" will become a commonly heard catchphrase in the next decade or so. In brief, water demand is rising while water supply is falling. Whether or not global climate change is affecting rainfall patterns, the West Coast is starting to move into a drier phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. Supply is falling because of 1.) land conversion: when you convert land from its wild state to agriculture or housing, it can no longer function as an intact watershed. 2.) snow pack: the West Coast is almost entirely dependent upon the amount of snow that falls in the Sierras for its summer water storage. There are a multitude of reasons why snow pack can be low, but a dry-phase PDO almost guarantees that snow pack will be below average for the next three or four decades.

Another major concern is that whenever water supply is low in California, fire danger escalates very quickly. This is already shaping up to be a bad year for fire throughout the state. Tinderbox conditions may exist by the end of July.
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: LB/OC for now...
5,112 posts, read 11,799,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHarrington View Post
And yet, why do I get the feeling that the next president will do nothing of the sort to address the issue? Given all the flooding occurring in the Midwest, you'd think they would be generous and actually transfer some of the extra water to states that need water, not just California, but any states that haven't been rained on lately.

On the other hand, haven't we had these issues before (i.e., surely there were droughts of this type in NoCal before, haven't there?)? I mean, it's not like water here, once it's gone, it's gone forever, is there? Isn't water cyclical?
it takes too much energy and infrastructure to build a pipeline to send water uphill from the midwest over the rockies and high desert into california. desalinization plants are more efficient, and those are huge energy hogs

Quote:
Another major concern is that whenever water supply is low in California, fire danger escalates very quickly. This is already shaping up to be a bad year for fire throughout the state. Tinderbox conditions may exist by the end of July.
fires are natural. our problem has been not letting nature take its course. this compounds the fire risk year by year
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