Is education not as high a priority in CA as it is in the Northeast (Los Angeles: environment)

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

You're forgetting about:
- sports facilities and the water and maintenance they require
- a school and the heat, electricity and water they require (sorry, my kid is not going to school in an office building)
- specialized facilities like music rooms, art rooms, kilns for pottery, etc...

Again I am not defending the waste in the system but I think your examples are contrived. If you think that a room with books is good enough for a school, then that tells me exactly where your priorities lie regarding education.

We need to stop defending their wasteful spending. Don't you know that they already cancelled many after school programs because of previous budget cuts? This comes back to what I was talking about, these bastards would rather punish our kids than take accountability for their filed programs. I went to school in California, I graduated. I also taught myself almost everything I now know. I have plenty of horror stories of the California school system.

It's been screwed for a long time and it is also largely a propganda machine. I kept one of my history books from my rural "white" school and I also have a history book from the same grade from a cousin who graduated in the Bay Area. Frightening. There is stuff going on in our school system that shouldn't be allowed. Either teach us all from the same text books or admit to blatant brainwashing. I guess I am bitter...it happens when you discover the truth.

FYI, what school did you go too? I've never even seen a kiln for pottery and the shut down the art and music rooms at my daughters school during the last budget crisis thing. No sports either...of course this is K-4th grades, so I guess sports isn't for little kids. As for electricity, government contracts always purchase in bulk. They pay less per kilowatt than any of us. $10,000 still doesn't add up to $3 per kid when it's all said and done.

My priorities lie with COMMON SENSE! Our schools have degraded 100 fold ever since the state took everything over. Government screws things up more than they fix things, just look at FEMA.

If ownership of our school districts were returned to the localities, I guarantee they would improve almost overnight. The state could offer subsidies to school districts in low income areas with economic incentives based on performance. In this way, parents would have more control of their child's education. The state can set standards, but should have no control over the entire system. This way, equality could be achieved through subsidies, but standards would also be improved because of local control over districts. It would also stop the brainwashing...I had to stop the "global warming" bull crap being fed to my kid. There are several theories and nothing has been proven yet. Global cooling theories put scientists on guard | Environment | Reuters

I am just tired of the lies and excuses given to me by the government and media each and every day. Enough already. Control needs to be given back to the People. Government has done nothing but increase its power over the people...it's gotta stop. Our school system in California is a prime example of that...

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

FYI, what school did you go too? I've never even seen a kiln for pottery and the shut down the art and music rooms at my daughters school during the last budget crisis thing. No sports either...of course this is K-4th grades, so I guess sports isn't for little kids.

Pulaski Road Elementary. East Northport NY. We had not only a kiln, but acres of fields, a dedicated art teacher, dedicated music teacher, complete sports equipment for every sport (from stickball to a full gymnastics setup with rings and pommel horse).

My High School was nicer than most Community Colleges in San Diego.

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

Pulaski Road Elementary. East Northport NY. We had not only a kiln, but acres of fields, a dedicated art teacher, dedicated music teacher, complete sports equipment for every sport (from stickball to a full gymnastics setup with rings and pommel horse).

My High School was nicer than most Community Colleges in San Diego.

And why are you defending the way schools are run in California??? lol California schools went from best in the nation to worst in a generation...and we spend 20 times as much per child now than we did then. The only difference is that schools had to answer to the local people back then, now they answer to no one.

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

And why are you defending the way schools are run in California??? lol California schools went from best in the nation to worst in a generation...and we spend 20 times as much per child now than we did then. The only difference is that schools had to answer to the local people back then, now they answer to no one.

NY outspends CA per pupil by almost 50%: 14,119 per student

The Highest Per-Pupil Spending in the U.S. - The Empire Zone - N.Y. / Region - New York Times Blog

You need to read my posts carefully and avoid reading into my statements. You are a very emotional poster.

[MtnSurfer]

Once we get past all the party line double speak the real question for me is what can we actually do to 'change' things? Not as liberals or conservatives, but as Californians! What basic tenants can we all agree upon to get something done? Lets start with the obvious.

1. The system is broken and it needs to change. How much does it need to change and what will that change look like?
2. Tremendous amounts of money are being wasted/mismangaged and our children and teachers suffer because of it. What steps can we start to take to turn that around?
3. We all care about our children and want to best education possible for them. Instead they are getting less and less every year. What will it take for us to stand up and say 'Enough!'

It is to the politicians and bureaucrats benefit that we squabble amoungst ourselves over things such as 'tax and spend' vs 'we give nothing!' Because then our eyes and minds are off the real problem - Them! And this cr@ppy system which continues to make them wealthy at our children's expense!

Lets face it, the machine works very well... for them. And it will not be dismantled without a fight and a lot of fancy speaches, smoozing and campaign smears. So until we Californians come up with a Real Plan we can agree upon and a strategy to fight back things will continue going from bad to worse.

Obviously we are not going to agree on everything. But that is not necessary to win a fight. We just need to unite upon the fundamentals as a people and go after those 'girly men' and break up the system which in my opinion is for the part beyond repair.

I think this goes beyond education reform. It calls for an education revolution!

Derek

[Sassberto]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Obviously we are not going to agree on everything. But that is not necessary to win a fight. We just need to unite upon the fundamentals as a people and go after those 'girly men' and break up the system which in my opinion is for the part beyond repair.

Nice post and good info overall.

I think the tone of this discourse is indicative of the greater political climate in CA. You have a very polarized populace. In places like NY that is not the case. CA is unique in it's size and diversity.

I think as long as you have these extreme views you will have no consensus. We need centrists and independents. I consider myself a staunch independent. Although I am generally liberal I do not identify with liberals and do not identify with conservatives. There are issues I am conservative on and issues I am liberal on. I am not an idealogue and I do not support, believe, or accept influence from the rhetoric of political groups, political parties, talk show hosts, or political commentators.

I am all for an overhaul of the system. I tend to think it may be too big. The large urban school districts are particularly problematic. However I do believe that while as a state we spend a lot, we spend too little per pupil. Everything comes at a cost. If you look at the numbers, there appears to be a strong correlation between high per-pupil spending and highly regarded schools.

The fact remains that southern and western states are the most conservative, have the least educational and cultural traditions, spend the least on schools, and generally are regarded as having the worst schools in the country. Alternately the northeast is the most liberal, has the strongest educational and cultural traditions, spends the most on schools, and generally is regarded as having the best schools in the country. I am not trying to argue cause-and-effect here, but either you believe there is a relationship there or you don't. I guess if people can't accept this, then we just need to agree to disagree.

To ignore these kind of basic correlations in the interest of maintaining an idealogical line (liberal or conservative) seems to be counterproductive to me. One thing most people in this country seem to agree upon right now is that an idealogical leadership stance is a failure. That is the fundamental difference between George Bush and Arnold Schwarzenager - both republican conservatives, but very different leaders.

On the other side there is a group of people with power and a vested interest in the status quo. They need to be held accountable by the people. But the people have failed to do so. Again and again these people are voted in by apathy or ignorance. I fear to say that it is California's disinterested voting populace at fault here.

[MommaJay]

I wouldn't say the schools are bad. But we are just over loaded by illegals.
And many of the problems come from that. The parents are few and far that are active with their child/children and homework/school.
Face it if you don't speak english, how are you to help with homework. Even thought CA offers free classes to learn english, for adults too.
Also if your child is in an area with a lot of non-english students, then your child gets less of an education, due to the attention is on the non english speaking child to make it through that grade, as CA hates to flunk a child.

Also, parents are just not acting as parents, allowing kids to do anything.

I will say CA has a great G.A.T.E. Gifted & Talented education program.
Also Great Colleges.

[sav858]

Nice posts MtnSurfer and Sassberto! agree very much, if I could give you reps I would.... I pretty much agreed with every word you wrote Sass.

CA is a very polarized state and it wasn't always like that. I read somewhere that CA has some of the most gerrymandered congressional districts in the country and some of the least competitive districts b/c of it. So many of our politicians are so damn clueless but see them getting reelected as some "mandate" when they basically win by default b/c democrats and republicans are pretty much guaranteed certain districts and seats.

Two things I think that would help make a huge difference and would help bring back more moderate, middle of the road politicians are:

1) redraw congressional districts so they are fair and competitive. Don't let lawmakers draw districts, have an independent, NON PARTISAN panel do it.

2) end term limits but ONLY IF #1 occurs. Even though most people favor term limits and in our current state system they make sense, but if you redraw districts so they are actually competitive then there is little need for term limits. And there is a ballot measure this Nov to do so, which I am voting for but I expect to fail like all the past ones.

I love my home state very much but it needs some serious fundamental changes or it will continue to go downhill. I'm starting to like this state less and less every year b/c it just keeps doing the same stupid crap that got it to where it is now over and over. I plan on leaving eventually to see if it's is overrated as I think it is, better than I think it is, or worse that I think it is b/c every year I feel it's less and less worth it. My family and friends are the biggest things that would keep me here. I really pray this state takes a new direction soon.....

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

NY outspends CA per pupil by almost 50%: 14,119 per student

The Highest Per-Pupil Spending in the U.S. - The Empire Zone - N.Y. / Region - New York Times Blog

You need to read my posts carefully and avoid reading into my statements. You are a very emotional poster.

I did say, "One of the highest per pupil"...not the highest. Last I heard, we were in the top 10 in spending, but in the bottom 10 in results.

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by MommaJay

I will say CA has a great G.A.T.E. Gifted & Talented education program.
Also Great Colleges.

My daughter is in G.A.T.E. and the only thing she has been taught in that program so far is that Global Warming is bad, environmentalism is good, mankind is destroying the Earth, ect ect. It is straight up indoctrination, but that might just be in my daughters school. I bet it is probably just her "teacher" for GATE that is just concerned about pushing her agenda..

If that crap continues next year, I'll have to yank my daughter out of the G.A.T.E. program. I thought GATE was about increasing proficiency in Math and Science, not Global Warming(which still hasn't been scientifically proven). I know we have a climate change going on in the world, but it could hardly be proven that humans are the cause. What has been proven is that we have been under a warm solar cycle which is now switching to a cooler solar cycle. I wonder what happens to the Global Warming movement after 5 cooler than normal years?