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Old 08-05-2008, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Visalia, CA / Bakersfield, CA / Lakewood, CA
102 posts, read 537,932 times
Reputation: 68

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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
San Luis Obispo has Mervyns, Home Depot, Costco, Gottschalks, Sears, Ralphs, and soon to be in SLO is Macy's and Kohl's.

SLO has:
-tourism
-tons of shopping
-downtown street shops (where Macy's & upscale clothing chain stores r)
-nearby outlet mall at the beach
-tons of movie theaters and entertainment in area
-major airport
-train station
-a good state college
-a community college

ppl drive from all parts of SLO county to work and do business in SLO. and SLO is generating tax revenue to be self sufficient city that makes it a charter city.

Visalia citizens have to commute to Fresno to get to all the amneties or drive to several cities in the area.
Though Admittedly Visalian's do have to commute for an Airport or State College, thats about it. Fresno Pacific University (private) is building a full campus in Visalia. Back before UC Merced was built, Visalia was in the running as a location for the UC.
I've never head of anyone not being able to find what they are looking for in Visalia. They also have a Circuit City, Best Buy, Mervyns, Kohls, Sears, Marshall's, Ross, JC Penny's. They have some tourism (gateway up to sequoia).

I think my biggest issue with the definition you propose is that is assumes all Urban areas have tons of wealth. I just don't know if thats really true. Though obviously Visalia is no LA or New York. I have an issue with it being called a Suburb of Fresno as well, as Visalia has its own economy independent of Fresno, plus its 45 miles away. If anything Visalia floats somewhere inbetween independent Urban area and Suburb of Fresno, because granted, you do have to Fly out of Fresno and the State College in Fresno is popular with many Visalians.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:20 PM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWJamesLDS View Post
Though Admittedly Visalian's do have to commute for an Airport or State College, thats about it. Fresno Pacific University (private) is building a full campus in Visalia. Back before UC Merced was built, Visalia was in the running as a location for the UC.
I've never head of anyone not being able to find what they are looking for in Visalia. They also have a Circuit City, Best Buy, Mervyns, Kohls, Sears, Marshall's, Ross, JC Penny's. They have some tourism (gateway up to sequoia).

I think my biggest issue with the definition you propose is that is assumes all Urban areas have tons of wealth. I just don't know if thats really true. Though obviously Visalia is no LA or New York. I have an issue with it being called a Suburb of Fresno as well, as Visalia has its own economy independent of Fresno, plus its 45 miles away. If anything Visalia floats somewhere inbetween independent Urban area and Suburb of Fresno, because granted, you do have to Fly out of Fresno and the State College in Fresno is popular with many Visalians.
Trust me, 45 miles of Fresno makes it a suburb. If you look down in LA area, that's an average commute time. An hour at max is a commute time. I think Fresno is getting more tax revenue than Visalia, and Visalia being so close to the sequioas is why they want to keep it smaller and less urban than Fresno. Let's not forget Visalia ppl like going to Fresno's theme park and clovis's water park. And Fresno has some better stores. I also dont think Visalia is urban because of it's surrounding cities are spread apart and only tulare, dinuba, and porterville have average urban population densitys. San Luis Obispo's suburbs are all grouped together and have high population density since they are at the beach. Morro Bay, Nipomo, Halycon, and Los Osos are a bit more spread out.

City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To me, an urban city has got to have it's "real" suburbs, have some good tax revenue base, main transportation, have all the shopping centers, a college, and the entertainment.

At the very least, Visalia is a strong suburb that draws rural cities to it. But Visalia doesnt have any suburbs, it has rural cities surrounding by it and it doesnt meet the tax revenue base. It really has no core market, no college, and no airport.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Visalia, CA / Bakersfield, CA / Lakewood, CA
102 posts, read 537,932 times
Reputation: 68
This is straight off of Wiki, so not vouching for accuracy, but nevertheless.
The United States Census Bureau has defined 363 Metropolitan Statistical Areas[1] (MSAs) for the United States of America. The Census Bureau defines a Metropolitan Statistical Area as one or more adjacent counties or county equivalents that have at least one urban core area of at least 50,000 population, plus adjacent territory that has a high degree of social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties.[2]



Metropolitan Statistical Areas of the United States of America Rank Metropolitan Statistical Area Nickname State 2007 Pop 2000 Pop Δ Pop Combined Statistical Area

112 Visalia-Porterville, CA MSA Tulare County CA 00,421,553 00,368,021 A061+14.55% ZZZ
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:53 PM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWJamesLDS View Post
This is straight off of Wiki, so not vouching for accuracy, but nevertheless.
The United States Census Bureau has defined 363 Metropolitan Statistical Areas[1] (MSAs) for the United States of America. The Census Bureau defines a Metropolitan Statistical Area as one or more adjacent counties or county equivalents that have at least one urban core area of at least 50,000 population, plus adjacent territory that has a high degree of social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties.[2]



Metropolitan Statistical Areas of the United States of America Rank Metropolitan Statistical Area Nickname State 2007 Pop 2000 Pop Δ Pop Combined Statistical Area

112 Visalia-Porterville, CA MSA Tulare County CA 00,421,553 00,368,021 A061+14.55% ZZZ
That's the state's system of couting how many people live in an area. They really don't define city to city that are urban, rural, or suburban.

The part of the urban core thing is like San Luis Obispo and El Centro having almost 50,000 population (but have population in college, rural areas, and illegal living residents), and then having adjacent territory and/or counties (suburbs) that has economic relationship with the urban core.

Visalia is an adjacent city within an hour of Fresno where the urban core. Visalia has no adjacent territories that have economic relationship. Hanford and Tulare, but thats about it.
I just dont think Visalia has the urban core El Centro, San Luis Obispo, Santa Maria, and Santa Barbara have.

El Centro has 43,000 population now, but is estimated to have 50,000 population by 2030 or 2040. Not to mention there is 150,000 population within 20 minutes of the city, and the city has about 5,000 residents in county rural land and then 2,000 so illegal citizens.

San Luis Obispo has 45,000 population, but is estimated to have 50,000 population by 2050 form the orcutt, margaritta, and airport road annexations. Not to mention there is 150,000 population within 20 minutes of the city, and the city has about 5,000 residents in the county rural land and then 6,200 college students living in the Cal Poly dorms.

That is why these urban cities w/ rural fringe are considered urban even though they have less than 50,000 population. San Luis Obispo and El Centro have made exceptions to the 50,000 population minimum. And I have a hard time believing that 50,000 population is what it takes to be an urban core. I think 40,000 population or 45,000 population is what it should be.

Visalia lacks the financial stability, major transportation, state college, entertainment, all shopping needs, and tourism. There are Visalians that have to commute to Fresno (6,000 ppl commute), and Visalia has alot of Fresno-based companies in the city that make-up alot of those jobs.


Also after re-reading what the wiki page says. I think they ment an area having at least 50,000 population and then having an area with less than that. Which even Paso Robles area has 50,000 population with adjacent smaller areas. I think San Luis Obispo and Visalia are urbanized areas since they have over 50,000 population within 10 minutes of each city.

http://www.leiderhayes.com/images/Property_PDF/VABS%20Leasing%20Flyer%20With%20Insert.pdf (broken link)

Last edited by the city; 08-05-2008 at 06:01 PM..
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:36 PM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
Reputation: 1298
Okay, I just wanted to bring out the big-gun on what the classification for Visalia is.

I called the demographic department of California up and talked to a demographic researcher. Under the Ruca code, Visalia is suburban. And San Luis Obispo is urban, and technically a mini urban, but none the less urban.

The borderline reason for Visalia being suburban and/or ex-urban is that it's PRIMARY urban core is Fresno, and yes it does have it's own urban core. But it's PRIMARY urban core is Fresno. Being that it's NOT a primary core, it's a suburb.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:39 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 5,439,131 times
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Suburban is still different than your rural fringe classification that you started with. But it still isn't the correct class. Since you now want to use RUCA, lets do that.

But your demographic researcher contact needs to talk to other demographers about Visalia the city, not the MSA.

He/She either did not check the census tract level data or they just gave you a quick answer based on Tulare County which covers Visalia's MSA.

RUCA, Rural-Urban Continuum Areas codes, are a Federal program that create 10 categories.

Here is the county classification by the Federal Govt.

San Luis Obispo County is a Code 3.
Tulare County where Visalia is located is a Code 2.
ERS/USDA Data - 2003 Rural-Urban Continuum Codes

But that refers to the entire county. RUCA classifications typically use a 30% commute factor for a Code 2 area, much more than the commute maps show leaving Tulare County. So residents are commuting but not necessarily to Fresno.

If we look at Zip Code approximations for RUCA codes Visalia's Zip Codes (93277, 93278, 93279, 93291, 93292, etc) we can get the RUCA code for the City of Visalia. You can download the Excel file which converts census tract info to zip codes here:
UW RHRC Rural Urban Commuting Area Codes (http://depts.washington.edu/uwruca/download.html - broken link)

Visalia shows as a RUCA code 1, (the column labeled RUCA2) the same as SLO's Zip Codes of 93401, 93403, 93406, 93408, etc. They are not 1.1, commuting to a larger urban area. So Visalia like SLO is its own urbanized area.

So both Visalia and SLO qualify as RUCA 1, Metropolitan area core: primary flow within an urbanized area (UA).

Now Tulare (93274, 93275) shows as RUCA 4.2 flow to a larger area, probably Visalia. So you could say Tulare is a suburb of Visalia.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:48 AM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoFacts View Post
Suburban is still different than your rural fringe classification that you started with. But it still isn't the correct class. Since you now want to use RUCA, lets do that.

But your demographic researcher contact needs to talk to other demographers about Visalia the city, not the MSA.

He/She either did not check the census tract level data or they just gave you a quick answer based on Tulare County which covers Visalia's MSA.

RUCA, Rural-Urban Continuum Areas codes, are a Federal program that create 10 categories.

Here is the county classification by the Federal Govt.

San Luis Obispo County is a Code 3.
Tulare County where Visalia is located is a Code 2.
ERS/USDA Data - 2003 Rural-Urban Continuum Codes

But that refers to the entire county. RUCA classifications typically use a 30% commute factor for a Code 2 area, much more than the commute maps show leaving Tulare County. So residents are commuting but not necessarily to Fresno.

If we look at Zip Code approximations for RUCA codes Visalia's Zip Codes (93277, 93278, 93279, 93291, 93292, etc) we can get the RUCA code for the City of Visalia. You can download the Excel file which converts census tract info to zip codes here:
UW RHRC Rural Urban Commuting Area Codes (http://depts.washington.edu/uwruca/download.html - broken link)

Visalia shows as a RUCA code 1, (the column labeled RUCA2) the same as SLO's Zip Codes of 93401, 93403, 93406, 93408, etc. They are not 1.1, commuting to a larger urban area. So Visalia like SLO is its own urbanized area.

So both Visalia and SLO qualify as RUCA 1, Metropolitan area core: primary flow within an urbanized area (UA).

Now Tulare (93274, 93275) shows as RUCA 4.2 flow to a larger area, probably Visalia. So you could say Tulare is a suburb of Visalia.
I'm still not sure as how Visalia can be considered an urban city when it looks to Fresno for the airport, entertainment, more stores for shopping needs, looks to Fresno's companies to bring jobs into Visalia, and then there's the 6,000 ppl in Visalia that commute there for work. Also the tourism is going into the smaller towns around Visalia where the sequioas are. And, then there's the fact that Visalia has no Macy's in the area and Macy's hasn't even considered into building in that area.

I'm not sure how to check to see if your translation of the RUCA code is correct. But you are telling me the only problem with my list is that Visalia should be under urban. Well, would you be willing to consider Visalia as ex-urban? Since I still believe Visalia has it's primary urban core in Fresno and then it's own smaller urban core in the city....

Should I make a seperate list for ex-urban areas? I dont think there are many ex-urbs in California, but I can make a list of them.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:53 AM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
Reputation: 1298
Well, I have found an article stating that Macy's has plans to go in Visalia. Sounds like in the Sequioa mall.


Visalia, Calif., mall seeks to lure Macy's. | Fresno Bee (Fresno, CA) (September, 2004)
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:29 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 5,439,131 times
Reputation: 816
Visalia is no more exurban then many of your other urban choices.

6,000 people in a county (not just Visalia) of roughly 120,000 workers is nothing. Most of the jobs are in or near Visalia for residents.

Consider that you have Santa Cruz as urban but 33,000 commute to jobs in other counties and 93,000 stay in Santa Cruz county for work. That is a much higher commute percentage.
http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/Commut...ruzCommute.pdf

Your interest seems to be in commercial and retail growth so you should consider using (or at least starting with) Ranally Metro Areas. Thats what many business people use in site selection.

Rand McNally has classified 1,500 cities in terms of their economy, trading area, and relationship to other cities. They become business centers, suburbs, etc.

You can find the Ranally ratings in the Rand McNally Commercial Atlas, there is a copy at the reference desk at the Atascadero library.

Someone posted some of the Ranally ratings at wikipedia. Visalia is a 3-AA like Santa Barbara, Salinas, Boise and other cities considered "Major significant local business centers". Fresno, Bakersfield, etc are more important 2-A, "Other regional business centers".

There are also rankings for suburbs like the 3-SS given to Orange, San Mateo, etc.
Ranally city rating system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Federal Reserve Bank uses a form of Ranally to look at things like bank mergers. The Federal Reserve starts with Ranally then looks at economic, commuting, and other patterns to determine individual urban areas for banking purposes. Their list is at
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/ba.../marketdef.pdf

But then of course there are the Nielsen DMA media markets. Santa Barbara/Santa Maria/SLO are one DMA and Fresno/Visalia are also a single DMA.
List of television stations in North America by media market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:26 PM
 
4,841 posts, read 11,079,816 times
Reputation: 1298
Okay, here's my newest updated list. I hope it's better than the rest:

Urban
Los Angeles
San Francisco
San Diego
San Jose
Fresno
Long Beach
Sacramento
Santa Ana
Sacramento
Santa Ana
Bakersfield
Stockton
Modesto
Oxnard
Salinas
Redding
Santa Maria
Santa Barbara
San Luis Obispo

Exurban
~Paso Robles (RUCA code gave this a 1, and it's definately not urban. but if they want to say it has an urban core, and then a PRIMARY core in SLO then im fine w/ that)
Victorville
Merced
Monterey
Visalia
Napa
Lancaster
Palmdale
Roseville
Northridge
Santa Cruz
San Rafael
El Centro
Vallejo

Suburban
Temecula
Irvine
Ontario
Oakland
Davis
El Dorado Hills
Santa Monica
Pomona
Ventura
Santa Clara
San Mateo
Newport Beach
Mission Viejo
Anaheim
Huntington Beach
Thouand Oaks
Hayward
Santa Clarita
Moreno Valley
Orange
Clovis
Fullerton
Hanford
Tulare
Madera
etc...

Rural
susanville
gardenville
san benito
ukiah
clearlake
red bluff
cedar ridge
crescent city
bishop
lompoc
mammoth lakes
yucca valley
king city
south lake tahoe
barstow
nevada city
Ione
Orland
Colusa
Fort Bragg
Weed
Yreka
Truckee
San Andreas
Ridgecrest
Corocan
Gonzales
Placerville
Hayfork
Madeline
Alturas
Davis Creek
Canby
Redway
Westport
Lone Pine
etc...
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