Does downtown San Luis Obispo need more franchise retail clothing stores? (Fresno: crime, co-op)

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by CA central coast

I hope they're better than Baja Fresh

Depends how you feel about fast food. Qdoba was originally from Denver. It was purchased by and is now a franchise from Jack in the Box. But when they opened over here they did give away a bunch of free burritos.
500 Free Burritos at QDOBA MEXICAN GRILL - CLOVIS, CA

[the city]

The news about Macy's wanting to come to San Luis Obispo is more than just rumors. They had signed plans to come to San Luis Obispo, and they left once because SLO was too strict with them on our architecture guidelines.


LOCAL GOTTSCHALKS SHOPPERS OFFER MIXED VIEW OF CHAIN

MACY'S HAS A PATTERN TO FOLLOW - A STORE HERE MOST LIKELY WOULD BE A SMALLER VERSION

MACY'S GETTING MESSAGE THAT '60S ARE OUT WHAT'S NEXT? - DESIGN OF PROPOSED STORE NEAR HWY. 101 IS BETTER, BUT CITY WANTS ARCHITECTS TO FURTHER REDUCE BOXINESS

MACY'S RETURNS WITH STORE DESIGN TO CREATE JOY IN MUDVILLE (SLO) - ARCHITECTS STRUCK OUT REDRAFTED PLAN TERMED 'CONTEMPORARY AGRARIAN'

MACY'S GETTING MESSAGE THAT '60S ARE OUT WHAT'S NEXT? - DESIGN OF PROPOSED STORE NEAR HWY. 101 IS BETTER, BUT CITY WANTS ARCHITECTS TO FURTHER REDUCE BOXINESS

Macy's Withdraws Plans to Open San Luis Obispo, Calif., Store. | Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News | Find Articles at BNET

Macy's Withdraws Plans to Open San Luis Obispo, Calif., Store. (18-MAY-04) The Tribune (San Luis Obispo, California) (via Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News)

There is a huge difference between us and Visalia. The Visalia malls asked Macy's to come there when Macy's wanted to come to San Luis Obispo.

Visalia, Calif., mall seeks to lure Macy's. (17-SEP-04) The Fresno Bee (Fresno, California) (via Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News)


Target in Prefumo Creek Commons. Kohl's or Lowe's in San Luis Obispo Promenade 2.
And Macy's will be in the expansion to the Irish Hills Plaza.

So what that it has been 2 years since anyone has heard of Macy's coming to SLO. Kohl's hasn't been heard of coming to SLO for an even longer amount of time. And now look, Kohl's has plans to go in the new dalidio project or in one of Madonna Enterprise's project.

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by SHNYROQ

You know, as someone interested in a career in city planning, you sure don't know how to respect people! Here comes someone with actual experience in the very profession and location that you are obsessed with, and this is how you respond to them?!?! You need to grow up, shut up, and learn some manners!

That statement was way out of line and I think you owe Adriatica a polite apology.

I think his interests are more closely aligned with the private sector, i.e. private, commercial developer.

Originally Posted by the city

The news about Macy's wanting to come to San Luis Obispo is more than just rumors. They had signed plans to come to San Luis Obispo, and they left once because SLO was too strict with them on our architecture guidelines.

Nothing wrong with having standards...

Originally Posted by the city

...


There is a huge difference between us and Visalia. The Visalia malls asked Macy's to come there when Macy's wanted to come to San Luis Obispo.

...

So what that it has been 2 years since anyone has heard of Macy's coming to SLO. Kohl's hasn't been heard of coming to SLO for an even longer amount of time. And now look, Kohl's has plans to go in the new dalidio project or in one of Madonna Enterprise's project.

All of your links are from about 4 years ago. Anyway, what are you trying to say?

[Adriatica]

Originally Posted by CA central coast

Really? I've always wanted ask something about Froom Ranch. Development exploded there, stores went up one right after the other. And you really didn't hear all that about it, at least the city seems pretty welcoming. Now revert back to the first store to go out there, Home Depot, and the hell the city put Alex Madonna through before he could build HD on HIS ranch. I realize Army Corps. had issues too, but he city demonized that guy, the attitude of the city was not welcoming. Alex Madonna even considered making Froom Ranch a hog farm to spite the city for all the garbage they were putting him through. Now look at the place, everything is out there. Did the city get a taste of that money? Make no sense. Not that Im opposed, I welcome it. But the attitute and actions of the city from the beginning, considering what's there now, was shameful. By no means am I directing this at you, I hope you don't take it that way. To me it's just mind boggling. Froom Ranch is a nice shopping center, I wonder how close it came to being a hog farm?

All good questions. And I'm sure I wasn't privy to all the ins and outs of the situation, but...

There were very legitimate environmental concerns regarding the Home Depot project. Not enough concerns to stop the project, but issues that certainly required mitigation. Let's say Madonna was...resistant...to dealing with these things. Legally, they had to be addressed in the EIR and there seemed to be stalemate for long time revolving around that. Unfortunately, environmental issues can take many months if not years to be identified and then properly addressed. Eventually, this was taken care of, but other problems would come up and by that point there was "bad blood" between city officials and Madonna. Add in the pressures from the county, the Army Corps, and from the general public (on both sides of the issue) and you've got a city who is worried to make ANY move.

There were other issues at hand, too, like the city's desire to assure the public that they weren't going for the project JUST because a wealthy local landowner was behind it. Most folks knew that the city is good at shooing away outside developers, but would they treat a local developer with the same scrutiny?

The city prides itself on a strictly limited growth plan and some people really did feel that development like Froom Ranch was doing the public a disservice and going against SLO's planning principles (not to mention their General Plan).

The "hog farm" business was never real, as far as I can tell. It was a dramatic way to make his point and keep the project in the media. Madonna is too smart of a businessman to go that far. As much as he might have wanted to make a point, he wants even more to make money.

That's my take on things. Please know that I was not a lead planner on the project, so I'm sure there are things I didn't know about (or have lost to fuzzy memories of late-night planning commission meetings).

[the city]

And here we have it, where Madonna Enterprises states they will not take Target or Macy's, that were originally tenets of Dalidio's project:

Target store may land on Los Osos Valley Road site instead of Dalidio Ranch - Local - San Luis Obispo

Biz Buzz: New Frontiers to break new ground - Business - San Luis Obispo

Old Navy, Whole Foods, TJ'Max, Circuit City, PetSmart, Office Max, Target, Lowe's, Macy's, Kohl's, Larkspur Hotel, and Sports Authority were all tenets of Dalidio's project. They all decided to go elsewhere.

[the city]

Originally Posted by Adriatica

All good questions. And I'm sure I wasn't privy to all the ins and outs of the situation, but...

There were very legitimate environmental concerns regarding the Home Depot project. Not enough concerns to stop the project, but issues that certainly required mitigation. Let's say Madonna was...resistant...to dealing with these things. Legally, they had to be addressed in the EIR and there seemed to be stalemate for long time revolving around that. Unfortunately, environmental issues can take many months if not years to be identified and then properly addressed. Eventually, this was taken care of, but other problems would come up and by that point there was "bad blood" between city officials and Madonna. Add in the pressures from the county, the Army Corps, and from the general public (on both sides of the issue) and you've got a city who is worried to make ANY move.

There were other issues at hand, too, like the city's desire to assure the public that they weren't going for the project JUST because a wealthy local landowner was behind it. Most folks knew that the city is good at shooing away outside developers, but would they treat a local developer with the same scrutiny?

The city prides itself on a strictly limited growth plan and some people really did feel that development like Froom Ranch was doing the public a disservice and going against SLO's planning principles (not to mention their General Plan).

The "hog farm" business was never real, as far as I can tell. It was a dramatic way to make his point and keep the project in the media. Madonna is too smart of a businessman to go that far. As much as he might have wanted to make a point, he wants even more to make money.

That's my take on things. Please know that I was not a lead planner on the project, so I'm sure there are things I didn't know about (or have lost to fuzzy memories of late-night planning commission meetings).

The biggest factor that makes me mad is that we had Macy's in the palm of our hands and they were so close to being in San Luis Obispo. Perhaps, the reason they didn't make it into Froom Ranch or Dalidio Ranch is the presence of Macy's represents a shopping mall that could endanger the downtown. But, imagine if Macy's didnt back out of the Dalidio project. Then just maybe the Dalidio project would have gone through. Then in 2006 Macy's bought out tons of department stores, and sadly Gottschalks was not one of them. And in 2007 Macy's called off plans to build 12 locations nationwide. Some believe SLO was on that list, and some say it wasnt.

If I were a city planner during the Macy's decision to come to SLO I would have been in complete support of what they wanted because we let that ugly Gottschalks building come here, so then why do we treat Macy's differently?

That is why I want to be a city planner in San Luis Obispo. I am going to be in support of giving retailers what they want. Macy's decided to make the store look as good as the Monterey and Santa Barbara stores, and if that it's not good enough then I dont know what is.

[Adriatica]

Originally Posted by the city

That is why I want to be a city planner in San Luis Obispo. I am going to be in support of giving retailers what they want.

I am really sorry to hear that. The good news is that if you display that attitude in a job interview with the city, you likely won't get hired in the first place (and rightly so). Planning is about putting the PEOPLE first.

But before you make up your mind about "giving retailers what they want" be sure to degree in planning and take some extensive course in economics. Honestly, all of the issues you present about San Luis Obispo are FAR more complex than you are making them out to be. But that's okay--you've got lots of time to learn.

Also, if you think a city planner gets to "decide" anything, you'd better look for a different field.

[the city]

Originally Posted by Adriatica

I am really sorry to hear that. The good news is that if you display that attitude in a job interview with the city, you likely won't get hired in the first place (and rightly so). Planning is about putting the PEOPLE first.

But before you make up your mind about "giving retailers what they want" be sure to degree in planning and take some extensive course in economics. Honestly, all of the issues you present about San Luis Obispo are FAR more complex than you are making them out to be. But that's okay--you've got lots of time to learn.

Also, if you think a city planner gets to "decide" anything, you'd better look for a different field.

I am not sure what the people in San Luis Obispo want. But I do know the Planning Commision had a say on Macy's coming in, and they didnt make it easy for Macy's. People wanted Macy's, and Macy's didn't come.

I am for the Target and the Kohl's shopping center to come to SLO. My biggest concern is that some radical citizens could try to prevent Macy's coming even in if the majority of citizens want Macy's, and Macy's has to want to come to SLO too.

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by the city

There is a huge difference between us and Visalia. The Visalia malls asked Macy's to come there when Macy's wanted to come to San Luis Obispo.
Visalia, Calif., mall seeks to lure Macy's. (17-SEP-04) The Fresno Bee (Fresno, California) (via Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News)

You might want to read that link a little closer. What it says is that "They're looking at the Visalia market, and we're looking at them," It was a mutual situation, not the malls simply saying come here.

Adriatica may have heard something different but my development sources tell me that there have been discussions with Macys about Visalia going back several years earlier than that article.

Originally Posted by the city

That is why I want to be a city planner in San Luis Obispo. I am going to be in support of giving retailers what they want. Macy's decided to make the store look as good as the Monterey and Santa Barbara stores, and if that it's not good enough then I dont know what is.

A lot more involved than just that.

If a development has to do an EIS/EIR it includes looking at economic impacts on other stores. How much business will other stores lose? Will other stores close? etc. Lots of questions to be answered.

When I look at your list of stores, just Kohls, Macys and Target is roughly $100 million in retail sales based on their average stores. Your other stores and anything new at those centers not listed probably add another $50 to $100 million.

Average per capita retail spending in California is about $10,000 per person per year. People don't spend more because they have new stores, they shift their spending. Some would be recaptured from the internet or other areas but much would move from one business to another in the same area.

SLO County only grows at about 2,000 people per year so it would take at least 10 years of new housing growth to create new spending to support the existing stores plus the new ones. And that is assuming no other major retail is built in the county in Paso Robles, Atascadero, Arroyo Grande, etc.

By simply allowing new development, how do you plan to avoid existing business from closing in shopping centers or downtown? The new stores and developers don't care if that happens, all they care about is their own profit not the competition.

A good example is a planned new Super Walmart in Clovis. A court just ruled the city has not adequately addressed the negative impact on other stores. The EIR looked only at the Clovis retail market but did not examine the impact on stores in Fresno.

Understand I'm pro-growth (I'm not fond of growth limits) but things have to be done smartly. A community has to make sure it doesn't create new problems for itself.

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by the city

The biggest factor that makes me mad is that we had Macy's in the palm of our hands and they were so close to being in San Luis Obispo.

...

The role of an urban planning professional is to be as neutral as possible on these matters. Getting mad will get you nowhere...

Originally Posted by the city

If I were a city planner during the Macy's decision to come to SLO I would have been in complete support of what they wanted because we let that ugly Gottschalks building come here, so then why do we treat Macy's differently?

That is why I want to be a city planner in San Luis Obispo. I am going to be in support of giving retailers what they want. Macy's decided to make the store look as good as the Monterey and Santa Barbara stores, and if that it's not good enough then I dont know what is.

Because cities have different development standards and goals. Perhaps SLO wanted the proposed Macy's to look better than those in Monterey and Santa Barbara?

You 'should' support the project because it meets the city's development standards/guidelines and it's General Plan - not because you like it. And most certainly you should not be giving the retailers whatever they want. You will be surprised at what they sometimes want. Besides, you overestimate the power of the City Planner (CP). He answers to the Planning Commission, City Manager, and City Council. And, do not underestimate the public. You would be working for them. Not Macy's.