Does downtown San Luis Obispo need more franchise retail clothing stores? (Fresno: 2009, co-ops)

[MIKEETC]

Originally Posted by Adriatica

I am really sorry to hear that. The good news is that if you display that attitude in a job interview with the city, you likely won't get hired in the first place (and rightly so). Planning is about putting the PEOPLE first.

But before you make up your mind about "giving retailers what they want" be sure to degree in planning and take some extensive course in economics. Honestly, all of the issues you present about San Luis Obispo are FAR more complex than you are making them out to be. But that's okay--you've got lots of time to learn.

Also, if you think a city planner gets to "decide" anything, you'd better look for a different field.

Agreed.

[the city]

Originally Posted by MIKEETC

The role of an urban planning professional is to be as neutral as possible on these matters. Getting mad will get you nowhere...



Because cities have different development standards and goals. Perhaps SLO wanted the proposed Macy's to look better than those in Monterey and Santa Barbara?

You 'should' support the project because it meets the city's development standards/guidelines and it's General Plan - not because you like it. And most certainly you should not be giving the retailers whatever they want. You will be surprised at what they sometimes want. Besides, you overestimate the power of the City Planner (CP). He answers to the Planning Commission, City Manager, and City Council. And, do not underestimate the public. You would be working for them. Not Macy's.

*sighs* Fine, you got me there.

And Adriatica I'm sorry for letting my hatred of anti-growthers out on you.

I guess if I'm a city planner I have to follow the city guidelines and listen to the people, and then do my job. I guess a city planner is in the middle and negotiates with the stores and what the people want.

FresnoFacts: I know the Super Wal-Mart in Atascadero is a must, so that in 10 years the city gets that tax revenue boost to pay-off debts for the Colony Square Centre and for other funds.

Also, the Lowe's and Golden Hills Plaza broke ground and will be finished in 2010. So there's no arguing against that project.

Now, the development in SLO is another issue. SLO is economically stong, there is a lot of land is being paved over, SLO has alot of local businesses, the downtown is the city's primary tax revenue area, and then there is the concern if the population in SLO can support the new retail developments. There is also the concern if consumers need more development or not.

Kohl's in San Luis Obispo Promenade 2.
Target in Prefumo Creek Commons.
Macy's in a expansion to Irish Hills Plaza.

Each project is about 200,000sq. ft. and within the city's general plan.

The Froom Ranch Mall I think is becoming a true discount/big-box "shopping" mall. It's interesting knowing that Home Depot and Costco own the property, so they are not considered apart of the Irish Hills Plaza. This makes it seem as the project is not a mall.

And one more thing. The city is going to gain a good amount of housing in the next 25 years from the Orcutt Road, Airport Road, Margarita Road, and Los Osos Valley Road Annexations. Along with the new shopping center developments the city is seeming more urban with rural fringe. I think that might be turning off some locals.

[CA central coast]

Originally Posted by the city

That is why I want to be a city planner in San Luis Obispo.

If that is your ultimate goal, number 1, don't let anyone on here know who you are. Number 2, if you are fortunate enough to get hired, keep your head down and keep a low profile until you pass probation.

[JetJockey]

It's sad to see all that beautiful land covered in asphalt. I used to ride horses on Madonna's property right where Home Depot is now. So sad.


And YES on measure D-08. No Wal Mart in Atascadero, I doubt that it will ever be built.

[CA central coast]

Originally Posted by Adriatica

There were other issues at hand, too, like the city's desire to assure the public that they weren't going for the project JUST because a wealthy local landowner was behind it. Most folks knew that the city is good at shooing away outside developers, but would they treat a local developer with the same scrutiny?

That's interesting. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the public who wanted to be assured are not SLO natives. How many people running the City of SLO actually grew up in the area? My guess would be not many, if any.

Originally Posted by Adriatica

The city prides itself on a strictly limited growth plan and some people really did feel that development like Froom Ranch was doing the public a disservice and going against SLO's planning principles (not to mention their General Plan).

I don't believe this an issue for most locals. I think this comes from people moving here from the cities, honestly.

Originally Posted by Adriatica

That's my take on things.

I hear you and thanks for the reply. It still seems weird to me.

Originally Posted by JetJockey

And YES on measure D-08. No Wal Mart in Atascadero, I doubt that it will ever be built.

Anyone who lives in SLO County knows the cost of living is ridiculous when compared to available jobs here. Even the "good" jobs can leave you with a tight budget. I'm all for Super Wal-Mart.

[JetJockey]

Originally Posted by CA central coast

Anyone who lives in SLO County knows the cost of living is ridiculous when compared to available jobs here. Even the "good" jobs can leave you with a tight budget. I'm all for Super Wal-Mart.

I've lived here for 15 or so years, and I understand that jobs are scarce and cost of living is expensive. I just don't believe an influx of minimum wage positions are really going to help the community. Didn't people say the same thing about Home Depot? They basically hire high school kids part time and employ a handful of decent employees (I worked there for 2 years while in college as a department supervisor). So, we're providing jobs for high school kids.

Goods will be cheaper at Wal Mart, yes... but you can also join the county co-op to get inexpensive fresh vegetables, or go through Cal Poly for milk, eggs and produce. ($26 a week for enough organically grown vegetables to feed a family of 4-5)


Plus, add on the increased traffic and possible crime (haven't you heard of the muggings and whatnot at the Paso Wal Mart? We really don't need that here...)

It just doesn't seem right to me.

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by the city

FresnoFacts: I know the Super Wal-Mart in Atascadero is a must, so that in 10 years the city gets that tax revenue boost to pay-off debts for the Colony Square Centre and for other funds.

The question about the Super Walmart in Atascadero or any new large retailer is what is the NET NEW sales tax revenue. In other words what will simply move from a current retailer to the new kid in town and what is actually new or recaptured from leakage outside the city.

Lets consider that Super Walmart for a second. Typically a major grocery store needs about 10,000 people to profitably support it, based on current industry estimates.

Atascadero has Albertson's, Vons, and Food 4 Less plus some smaller stores. Those stores serve about 28,000 people in Atascadero plus the outlying areas like Templeton, say another 5,000 people. So currently Atascadero is close to industry estimates for grocery stores per capita. Each big store has about 11,000 potential customers.

If we inject another grocer (Walmart or anyone else) the population splits 4 ways, instead of 11,000 potential customers each stores averages only about 8,250 people to serve. That might not be enough people for one of the existing stores to make money, and they may not be able to wait for population growth, leading it to close.

If a current grocery store closes that eliminates a shopping center anchor store which would hurt that center and other tenants. There is the loss of jobs if a store closes. And the community no longer receives taxes from the closed store.

While the community may see some increase in taxes with a new store it may lose some so the NET gain is smaller than some might expect. In an extreme situation maybe even no real tax growth just a shuffling around of the source of the taxes.

The new store doesn't care if someone else closes, that's competition. But the city and its residents are the ones left dealing with empty storefronts, which might attract litter, graffiti, etc.

And understand I'm not saying that Walmart or any large store is bad for a community. It can inject some new business, attract new additional growth, add choices for residents, etc. I wouldn't be in business myself if I didn't believe in free enterprise, competition and economic growth.

But we also have to understand that there will possibly be problems elsewhere in a community if it cannot absorb the new entrant via its current population levels and growth.

[the city]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

The question about the Super Walmart in Atascadero or any new large retailer is what is the NET NEW sales tax revenue. In other words what will simply move from a current retailer to the new kid in town and what is actually new or recaptured from leakage outside the city.

Lets consider that Super Walmart for a second. Typically a major grocery store needs about 10,000 people to profitably support it, based on current industry estimates.

Atascadero has Albertson's, Vons, and Food 4 Less plus some smaller stores. Those stores serve about 28,000 people in Atascadero plus the outlying areas like Templeton, say another 5,000 people. So currently Atascadero is close to industry estimates for grocery stores per capita. Each big store has about 11,000 potential customers.

If we inject another grocer (Walmart or anyone else) the population splits 4 ways, instead of 11,000 potential customers each stores averages only about 8,250 people to serve. That might not be enough people for one of the existing stores to make money, and they may not be able to wait for population growth, leading it to close.

If a current grocery store closes that eliminates a shopping center anchor store which would hurt that center and other tenants. There is the loss of jobs if a store closes. And the community no longer receives taxes from the closed store.

While the community may see some increase in taxes with a new store it may lose some so the NET gain is smaller than some might expect. In an extreme situation maybe even no real tax growth just a shuffling around of the source of the taxes.

The new store doesn't care if someone else closes, that's competition. But the city and its residents are the ones left dealing with empty storefronts, which might attract litter, graffiti, etc.

And understand I'm not saying that Walmart or any large store is bad for a community. It can inject some new business, attract new additional growth, add choices for residents, etc. I wouldn't be in business myself if I didn't believe in free enterprise, competition and economic growth.

But we also have to understand that there will possibly be problems elsewhere in a community if it cannot absorb the new entrant via its current population levels and growth.

If Super Wal-Mart has to replace some one, then fine. Whatever it takes to bring in more tax revenue into that city. If Super Wal-Mart doesn't come in, then all the stores that went into Mission Oaks will leave. And that means less tax revenue.


If there is another option to Super Wal-Mart, then I would say that's great. Since TJ'Max can bascially go anywhere, and the only resturaunt losses are Olive Garden, Outback Steak House, and Red Lobster (which by the way commited to coming in).

And let's not forget Super Wal-Mart will be drawing consumers from Shandon, Creston, Santa Margarita, and some of the 8,000 residents of Templeton. And draw consumers from Paso Robles that has 30,000 population.



My biggest concern though is in San Luis Obispo

-Prefumo Creek Commons (Target)
-San Luis Obispo Promenade (Kohl's or Lowe's)
-expansion to Irish Hills Plaza (Macy's)

Im

[CA central coast]

Originally Posted by JetJockey

Goods will be cheaper at Wal Mart, yes... but you can also join the county co-op to get inexpensive fresh vegetables, or go through Cal Poly for milk, eggs and produce. ($26 a week for enough organically grown vegetables to feed a family of 4-5)


Plus, add on the increased traffic and possible crime (haven't you heard of the muggings and whatnot at the Paso Wal Mart? We really don't need that here...)

It just doesn't seem right to me.

I know wal-mart doesn't pay squat. I was thinking about the consumer. County co-op and Cal Poly, how many people here know about that? First, I've heard of it. But thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.. Muggings at Paso wal-mart? hadn't heard about that. IMO, even though Paso and Atascadero are mere minutes from each other, I don't see a problem like that for Atascadero.

[Adriatica]

Originally Posted by the city

And Adriatica I'm sorry for letting my hatred of anti-growthers out on you.

I guess if I'm a city planner I have to follow the city guidelines and listen to the people, and then do my job. I guess a city planner is in the middle and negotiates with the stores and what the people want.

For as much as I pick apart your posts, I do want to encourage you. I think planning is an important field and one I've been very proud to be a part of. And it's a field that's genuinely fascinating to me! So I feel fortunate to have studied something I like and to have work that I really love (um, most days). You are very fortunate to live in the state of CA where numerous universities offer BS degrees in planning and I hope you can take advantage of one of these great programs. You already have an interest in it--it will be fun for you to see where it takes you.

And that's the end of my cheesy supportive post.