Nov 4 State Propositions! (loan, cost, legal)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

I can say it time and time again, this is not about the right to marry someone of the same sex. This proposition goes deeper than that. It is part of a goal to do away with the traditional family unit.

HOW?? I keep asking you to explain this but you keep conveniently ignoring it. I am seriously curious to HOW this destroys the family unit. I honestly don't get this argument. How does gay marriage affect you or anyone else personally? How are allowing two people to get married "destroy" other families? I've never heard of families getting a divorce or falling apart b/c two homosexuals decided to get married. Did all the gay couples that got married after June lead to a break up of thousands of Californian families or something that I was not aware of?

You keep saying it will destroy the family unit but give no explanation on the reasons how it would do that. So please explain this viewpoint b/c I honestly don't get it and am trying to understand what people mean by saying that.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

What about getting the government out of the Church's business? Why don't we leave marriage to the church?

I second this. It's not the government's job do define marriage, same-sex or not. On the same thought, it's not the government's job to define what constitutes a family -- especially in a state as varied with people and economic circumstances as California.

[Hobgoblin]

Originally Posted by cre8

I second this. It's not the government's job do define marriage, same-sex or not. On the same thought, it's not the government's job to define what constitutes a family -- especially in a state as varied with people and economic circumstances as California.

Of course that won't work for the anti-gay marriage faction because there enough liberal churches out there that would be happy enough to marry gay couples. After all, the argument that it is against god's will is not a blanket statement that covers all religious institutions and beliefs in our country.

Do you think the family unit would suffer or not when they lose the government sanctioned perks such as tax breaks, inheritance rights, and things like child support, when the bread winner decides to bail. Because those would all go away too if you take the government completely out of the picture. You can't say they're not needed or wanted on one side of the coin, but you want them to stick their noses in on the other.

[happ]

Why won't Republicans explain their point of view by defending their statements? How does gay marriage destroy the institution of marriage? Are Christians who accept gay marriage wrong?

Please stand up & explain yourself if you can!

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by happ

Why won't Republicans explain their point of view by defending their statements? How does gay marriage destroy the institution of marriage? Are Christians who accept gay marriage wrong?

Please stand up & explain yourself if you can!

Many Republicans don't make sense. Some of the biggest anti gay republicans have turned out to be gay themselves. Those strongest against something like this usually have deep issues with their own sexuality.

[Rhenzanite]

I've wondered that plenty of times myself... Me and my boyfriend don't plan on getting married (we're a heterosexual couple) until everyone (human, don't bring marrying your dog into this..) has that same right.

And to all those saying that being gay is a choice, I only wish you were there with me when I had to sit with my gay ex roomate who was sitting on the floor crying because of the hate slurs he witnessed one particular day, telling me that he would give anything to be straight, to live this societies 'normal' life. His mother and father disowned him after he failed at becoming straight at one of those camps they send gay kids too. Written out of their will, abandoned and left to fend for himself at the age of 16. Yeah, it's a choice...

[krudmonk]

I want to preserve the traditional family unit by prohibiting women from working outside the home. After all, it is traditional. You can't argue with tradition or else you're a homo commie.

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

I want to preserve the traditional family unit by prohibiting women from working outside the home. After all, it is traditional. You can't argue with tradition or else you're a homo commie.

Amen brother Michael Savage for president!

[caldje]

Does anyone else wonder why Mass. doesnt get brought up in this discussion more often? I mean, mass has been marrying gays for years and still... no social destruction. Families survive as they always have.

I mean, the proof is out there, gay marriage harms nobody. And, it doesnt mean churches get sued, and children get taught to be gay in school. It just means two dudes or chicks can get married. I mean, that really is all it is about.

Remember, mass. has been marrying gays for years and everything is just fine in the world. Canada marries gays as does the UK. Seriously, the world is still alright. Children arent being force fed homsexuality and churches still denounce gays and lesbians freely.

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

I work in healthcare. Plenty of gay people in the industry. My brother is also gay and many of his friends are also friends of mine. We have all had interesting discussions on Prop 8.

As far as the tax benefit that is a political point that is tossed out. "Let them marry and so that they can get the tax benefit." That is a small part of a political movement. There is an agenda that many have to destroy the traditional family unit and they will push any kind of legislation to get that point across. This has nothing to do about helping gay or lesbian individuals. This has everything to do with putting another nail in the coffin of the tradditional family unit. What is next, Brother and sisters getting married, a man marring his pet dog?

As far as health care benefits, many companies allready offer that to people in any kind of committed relationship.

how can you vote for a proposition that would deprive your brother of human rights? no offense, but if you are talking with your gay brother and his gay friends, i can't believe that you haven't learned more of what rights we are asking for. there are all kinds of rights that are obtained from a legal marriage contract like survivorship/inheritance rights, parental, adoption/child support rights, healthcare rights. the lists goes on and on. it would cost a gay couple thousands of dollars to hire an attorney to set up "marriage-like" rights that are obtained by hetro sexual couples by a simple one stop visit to the county clerk's office for a civil marriage certificate (only $15).
as for marriage in a church, that is only a sacramental rite, not one that confers any legal standing. many gays couples have had "commitment ceremonies" over the years , but again they confer no legal status.

i was just talking with a friend of mine in woodland hills who told me that her church had a man come to her church to tell the flock to vote "yes on 8". he brought up the usual fantasy stuff about gays teaching gay sex to "little billy" in the classroom, churches being sued because they refuse to perform ceremonies for gay couples, etc. i hope that some of the parishioners will think about reality and not the preachers' fantasies.