Proposition 10 - Renewable Energy (sale, purchase, tax)

[CA4Now]

Although the primary focus has been that, if passed, this proposition would allow rebates for those who purchase hybrid vehicles, what about the fact that it would also reduce California's dependence on foreign oil? The fact that the major power companies have spent $$ to try to get this proposition defeated makes me want to vote FOR it. I'm tired of watching my electric bill continue to climb every year.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Although the primary focus has been that, if passed, this proposition would allow rebates for those who purchase hybrid vehicles, what about the fact that it would also reduce California's dependence on foreign oil? The fact that the major power companies have spent $$ to try to get this proposition defeated makes me want to vote FOR it. I'm tired of watching my electric bill continue to climb every year.

Well, the California Democratic Party came out neutral on it and the Sierra Club was reluctantly opposed so I decided to look at who supports it rather than opposes it. Who do I find but T. Boone Pickens? The douchebag responsible for giving tons of money to Bush and the RNC for him to get re-elected and giving over $3 million to the Swift Boat Vets who tried to destroy John Kerry's admirable war record. So, if he is supporting it, I am for sure opposing it. I also found this and it solidified my decision to vote against it:

"Pickens owns Clean Energy Fuels Corporation, a natural gas fueling station companythat is the sole backer of the November 2008 Proposition 10 on California's ballot. Much of the measure's sale of $5 billion in general fund bonds to provide alternative energy rebates and incentives ($9.8 billion after interest) could benefit Pickens' company to the exclusion of almost all other clean-vehicle fuels and technology."

Also, just pointing this out, but Pickens is from Texas, not California. And he's an oil baron, that's how he made his vast fortune. If he's supporting it, it's only because his company will make a ton of money from it. This doesn't come from some need to make the world a better place on his part.

[bhcompy]

what about the fact that it will cost tax payers 10billion dollars over 30 years(50% of that interest), to the tune of around $335million per year in repayments?
what about the fact that it may add up to $10million/yr in government administration costs?

If it costs me money, I vote no. And this one costs a ton of money. More debt is created by this measure than every measure except 1A.

Every year people ***** and moan about the budget, and every election cycle the same people vote in billions in new bonds. What program(s) is(are) going to be cut for this? Oh, the proposition doesn't consider any of that. It just guarantees money out of the general fund to pay for it. Lovely.

Oh, and you said major power companies are trying to defeat this. What about T Boone Pickens? He is a very well known oilman, and he's for it and donating millions toward this effort.

If the Sierra Club, which is probably the most respected eco-friendly special interest in California, is against 10(and 7), it's probably not the right way to go. They say the cost is too much for too little, and this is a group that is against using/increasing fossil fuels and believes wholeheartedly in renewable fuels.

Both parties, pretty much every major newspaper, enviro/conservation group, taxpayer foundation, and major politician are against 7 and 10 because they are poorly written measures that would spend a lot of money for little real gain. The idea is good, but the way they are going about it is stupid.

[sav858]

I usually all for the environment and more sustainable practices but this is a bad proposition, along with 7. And just look at all the respected groups and people that are against it I agree that this is too much for too little and I will be voting no.

[CA4Now]

Thanks for the information. Although I knew about T. Boone Pickens, I didn't realize that the Sierra Club was also against it. It looks as if all of these propostions were poorly written and/or have costs that will outweigh their benefits. I think the only proposition I'll be voting yes on is #2 (standards for confining farm animals).

[Humanoid]

Yeah, this one sounds all good until you start looking at who supports it. Unless pickens has had a brain transplant over the last few years the only reason he would support this is if he profited from it.

Prop 7 is odd too. So many commercials against it....its weird. Then you look at who is funding them....all the major energy companies.

Reading the props is depressing, they are mostly special interest crap and nothing is what it seems.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

Yeah, this one sounds all good until you start looking at who supports it. Unless pickens has had a brain transplant over the last few years the only reason he would support this is if he profited from it.

Prop 7 is odd too. So many commercials against it....its weird. Then you look at who is funding them....all the major energy companies.

Reading the props is depressing, they are mostly special interest crap and nothing is what it seems.

Yup, Pickens and his company will basically be the only people to profit from that. Pickens squicks me so much, he's gross...

[phoenix_talons]

So you're all saying that we should rely on foreign oil more so that local American oil barons like Pickens will make less profit.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by phoenix_talons

So you're all saying that we should rely on foreign oil more so that local American oil barons like Pickens will make less profit.

Nope, I'm saying that a better proposition should be written that won't give all of the money to Pickens and his company. If only one company is able to profit to the exclusion of all other companies who could potentially help ease our dependence on foreign oil, then something seriously wrong is happening.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Nope, I'm saying that a better proposition should be written that won't give all of the money to Pickens and his company.

Exactly. These propositions, on the whole, are poorly written as they stand now.