California's Costly Propositions (Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco: renting, buy, construction)

[Humanoid]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Woah, what is your problem? The central valley has a lot of people and we produce most of the food for the state so if I were you I wouldn't go insulting the millions of people who grow your food. Just because we aren't freaking L.A.

I'm not insulting the people that grow food in the central valley, but farmers aren't exactly the sort of people that need to rapidly travel around the state.

At the moment there just isn't enough business in the central valley to justify this sort of thing. Tax dollars shouldn't taken from everyone to support the desires of a small group of people that want to shorter their trips.

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Go ahead and move out of state, we don't need people who make fun of kids with cancer.

Dude, c'mon. Nobody is making fun of "kids with cancer". Vote yes on 1a because otherwise you don't support kids with cancer......

[ImRandy]

lol There are some great arguments for high speed rail here. We need a special award for best pro-argument.

I would like to nominate, Pimps ride Amtrak.

Too funny!

[timelesschild]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

If you're going to spend the money I would imagine you'd get a much better bang for your buck by spending it on improving city level public transit.

That's what I'm saying...

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

I'm not insulting the people that grow food in the central valley, but farmers aren't exactly the sort of people that need to rapidly travel around the state.

At the moment there just isn't enough business in the central valley to justify this sort of thing. Tax dollars shouldn't taken from everyone to support the desires of a small group of people that want to shorter their trips.


Dude, c'mon. Nobody is making fun of "kids with cancer". Vote yes on 1a because otherwise you don't support kids with cancer......

Well, you were making fun of me when you said I go home to visit "mommy and daddy." I wish that's what I was going home to do. Actually, vote Yes on 3 or else you don't support kids with cancer.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by ImRandy

lol There are some great arguments for high speed rail here. We need a special award for best pro-argument.

I would like to nominate, Pimps ride Amtrak.

Too funny!

That wasn't all of it. I went home on the last train on a Thursday night so it wasn't very crowded on the train but I heard some crazy stuff. For the first leg of the trip, from Emeryville to Stockton, I sat across the aisle from a guy and a girl who were talking about their love lives. The girl said she didn't want to get back with her boyfriend because he punched her in the face and yanked out her weave but maybe it was her fault for kneeing him in the balls first. But then she said it was cute because her boyfriend was also her sister's baby daddy's cousin (her words, not mine) and it was fun to do double dates. Okay, for the pimp, there was more than that. He sat down after the guy and girl got off at Stockton and then he was chatting with this guy who came and sat with him who looked like a meth head (my dad's a lawyer, I know what meth heads look like) and told him basically his life story. This included being molested at the age of six by his mother's lesbian lover, being a crack dealer, needing to get to Merced in time for one of his prostitutes to give birth, and discussing how much money prostitutes can make in Alaska as opposed to California (I guess the sailors in Alaska like prostitutes?) And did I mention the meth head claimed to be from Alaska and an old friend of the Palin family? I swear, I couldn't wait for them to get off at Merced. And I'm pretty sure they weren't smoking cigarettes during stops. Seriously, I didn't make this stuff up. I didn't go to the bathroom for the entire six hour trip, I was not leaving my laptop bag alone...

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

Then take a plane. Its around $70 bucks from SD to SF.

But seriously, why should tax payers be interested in reducing your holiday travel costs? Everyone keeps mention personal travel...I fail to see how making it easier for someone to visit relatives is going to help the state.

As far as business goes, physically traveling from city to city is out dated. In the majority of cases video conferencing would work just fine. By the time this rail is done these technologies will be even better further reducing the need for rapid travel between individual cities.

If Californians vote for this rail then taxes will have to be raised. There is really no other way to fund it. The state is already going to have to dramatically cut services to even come close to getting a balanced budget. Of course, the budget they just past isn't going to fly, their projects for tax revenue where to rosy.

$70? Really? Cause I just bought a ticket a few weeks ago for $250 to fly home. And it's always at least $200.

People travel for whatever reasons they do whether you agree with them or not. Govt is there to provide the infrastructure we need for mobility and is a public good whether you agree with that or not. I don't like all of my taxes dollars going to fund freeway expansions and airports, but they do. Sorry if you don't want your tax dollars to fund high speed rail but I do. You have absolutely no more say in this process than I do, so don't act like you do.

And the amazingly hypocritical thing is that you support Amtrak and tell people to use Amtrak despite it being SUBSIDIZED for basic operations. That is the biggest double standard BS out there. At least high speed rail has the actual potential and PROJECTIONS to pay for itself.

People keep saying telecommuting will change everything, etc... well it hasn't caught on yet or even gained that much momentum. Sorry but people will always need to be there in person in many situations. My company has to send people all over the country and state all the time and that won't change to the point of making business travel obsolete.

This project will be beneficial to Ca in so many ways. It will increase our mobility and make the state of Ca attractive to businesses and tourists looking to come here. And it will enable people within the state to flow more freely. There is so much economic potential with this system, it will be a tourist attraction in itself. In addition to all of the development that will occur around the stations. Just look at what all the other major infrastructure projects have done for CA, this high speed rail will take CA into the future and help make it a better place to live, visit, and do business. Doing nothing will only hold this state back.

[Humanoid]

Originally Posted by sav858

$70? Really? Cause I just bought a ticket a few weeks ago for $250 to fly home. And it's always at least $200.

I don't know what to tell you dude, perhaps you are buying the tickets last minute? Its around $250 (no taxes) for a round trip to the east coast so long as you book your flight ahead of time (At least a few weeks before you go). Round trip from SD to SF is around $130 so long as you schedule the fight ahead of time.

Even if you book the fight last minute $250 is pretty expensive.

Originally Posted by sav858

You have absolutely no more say in this process than I do, so don't act like you do.

I never suggested my vote counts more than yours, I suggested that few people will benefit from this project and its not fair to rob me and others to pay for it. The costs for this project are huge. But really, I don't care that much I can move.

Originally Posted by sav858

And the amazingly hypocritical thing is that you support Amtrak and tell people to use Amtrak despite it being SUBSIDIZED for basic operations. That is the biggest double standard BS out there. At least high speed rail has the actual potential and PROJECTIONS to pay for itself.

When did I say I support the Amtrak subsidies?

Originally Posted by sav858

People keep saying telecommuting will change everything, etc... well it hasn't caught on yet or even gained that much momentum. Sorry but people will always need to be there in person in many situations. My company has to send people all over the country and state all the time and that won't change to the point of making business travel obsolete.

I don't know where you get your information from by telecommuting has been on the raise since the notion was created. I'm not sure what you mean by it hasn't caught on yet. Are you expecting it to replace all physical commuting? That isn't realistic. It is increasing being used by employers though.

Having meetings via video conference has already replaced a lot of face to face meetings. As the technology improves it will continue to do so.

Originally Posted by sav858

This project will be beneficial to Ca in so many ways. It will increase our mobility and make the state of Ca attractive to businesses and tourists looking to come here.

What is in it for business? They are the ones that are going to have to largely pay for it. How will they benefit exactly? This train system is not going to help people get to work (oh wait....there is that guy that lives in Bakersfield and works in Los Angeles...), its not going increase efficiency by reducing traffic. Its just a fancy toy.

You want to improve the state? Build light rail systems in the cities.

[cobmw]

CA is broke! Ha, Ha, Ha. Gotta love it. The Democrats have run up the debt and chased out many of those who paid the high taxes that the trough eaters live off. And it's going to get worse. Much worse.

The worse it gets the more I'm enjoying this. Wait, what am I saying? I've still got to sell that house I own in Santa Ana. Oh well Obama will take care of the mortgage on that one. Pretty soon much of the country will be in the same sad shape as CA. Then I won't be laughing.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by cobmw

CA is broke! Ha, Ha, Ha. Gotta love it. The Democrats have run up the debt and chased out many of those who paid the high taxes that the trough eaters live off. And it's going to get worse. Much worse.

The worse it gets the more I'm enjoying this. Wait, what am I saying? I've still got to sell that house I own in Santa Ana. Oh well Obama will take care of the mortgage on that one. Pretty soon much of the country will be in the same sad shape as CA. Then I won't be laughing.

That's rude. Just stay out of California if you hate it so much. I'm fine with how this state operates, thank you. I'm better off here than in Kansas or Georgia where some right wing nut can try to shove creationism down my throat. And seriously, how do you figure all the high tax payers have been chased off? The high tax payers are the people who can afford to live in San Diego, San Francisco, and L.A. There are plenty of people who will pay taxes to live in California. And I'm pretty sure taxes in other states are just as bad. The property tax in Texas, for example, is high. State taxes in different states basically cancel each other out.

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by ImRandy

lol There are some great arguments for high speed rail here. We need a special award for best pro-argument.

I would like to nominate, Pimps ride Amtrak.

Too funny!

My only question is if we have high speed rail how will that change who's sitting next to you on the train?