The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Berkeley, Santa Cruz: area, business)

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by robertpolyglot

I think children should be entitled to a mother (female) and a father (male) ,if this can be done. If that doesn't work, well than, there are a lot of single parents who do a good job. I think that, on one of the 20/20 or 60 minutes or other news-type of documentaries, they profiled the kids raised by same-sex parents and followed them over a number of years and the prognosis was not good.

WHAT A LOAD OF BULL.
Sorry to tell you but children raised by one parent are NOT better off then children raised by a same sex couple. How can you say 2 loving parents are not as good as 1 loving parent? That is just stupid and makes no sense.

Same sex parents are the exact same as regular parents, some are good, some are bad. Back up your claim of the 20/20 story or 60 minutes story. I want to see the facts.

I know children of same sex couples. NOt all were raised by them but they are their parents but none the less, and these are perfectly NORMAL STRAIGHT ADULTS. They grew up JUST FINE.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by AuburnJack

I am perplexed that you (like many others) are so proud of their ignorance.

My sentiments exactly.

[18Montclair]

And to whomever just sent me that 'positive' rating, Its not about the Bretheren, its about who they represent as well as me prioritizing my life. Do I follow my carnal desires or do I defer to the will of God? In the case of Prop 8, I chose the latter.

And I am very happy that I did so.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by brattpowered

I am not from CA, but watching the parties thrown by people celebrating the passage of prop 8 makes me wonder how people can revel so heartily in the heartbreak that this has caused so many people-- children of gay couples included.

Don;t you know? Yes on 8 voters don't consider gay people human. They don't have the same rights as the rest of humanity so they don't care if they are devastated and their children as upset.

They want gay people to suffer because they don't agree with the lifestyle and that is the gods truth about people opposed to gay people getting married.

They are on their high horse and need to keep someone down to feel better about their own ****ty marriages and families that are falling apart.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

LOL.


Here's another perspective: When I was a little girl I dreamed of being a bride. When I got married, when I saw my name under the word "bride" it was an exciting, happy moment. My moment would have been seriously dimished if my marriage license had read "Person 1" or some other wording that I've heard would be changed on marriage licenses to accommodate same-sex couples.

LAME LAME LAME LAME.
THAT IS THE LAMEST EXCUSE BY FAR.

This is NOT Fantasyland and NO wishing upon a star. This marriage will end in divorce if one cannot learn to havethe capacity to love. THESE actions to segregate other humans from yourself speaks louder than any lame excuses.

[AuburnJack]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

My sentiments exactly.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I've gone as far as to back up my position with excerpts from the California Education Code and exit poll data, and if you would like, I'd love to track down some legal documents from civil rights cases like Loving v. Virginia... I did that to expand and back up my position the last time I got into a debate on this issue, and frankly, found it educational and fascinating.

But as I've said multiple times before in this thread, there is no logic and no reason that can compete with the heady combination of fear and organized religion. You're right. I'm wrong. End of discussion.

That's fine. If you want to ignore all of the factual data I have posted in order to dismiss me as the ignorant one, with no evidence but your own opinion, I can't stop you... I sure as hell can't stop more fanatic segments of the Yes on 8 crowd from expressing bigoted attitudes and then decrying bigotry when people call them on it, or claiming oppression on behalf of a religion that has an 80% majority in the national population, and 100% majority of our leaders and legislators.

Suffice it to say that I have recognized that there is nothing to be afraid of. If you don't want to hear or understand why that is, fine. But we'll have to agree to disagree on which of us is being willfully ignorant.

[bakersfield1980]

Originally Posted by CESpeed

I know that Gay people believe that they are born Gay. I believe that it's true and it's not true.

It is true that a person has no control over WHO they are attracted to, or what sex the person they are attracted to is; however, you do control who you actually have a relationship with.

Before you hit BLAST KEEP READING: Yes you do control who you have a relationship with! I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that you would be happy if you are homosexual and you are with someone of the opposite sex. Of course you will be unhappy. But it is a choice.

I firmly believe that people should be with who they will be happy with. And that you do not have any control over. I hope that Gay people are able to find a way to have their chosen relationships legally acknowledged with a definition that will not intrude not other people's rights.

Can someone tell me what's wrong the Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships that are already legal and gives homosexual couples the same rights as heterosexual couples?

They are choosing this immoral lifestyle regardless of what it does to society. What is wrong with Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships that are already legal and gives homosexual couples the same rights as heterosexual couples is that they give the same rights. When passing prop 8 the majority of Californians decided that gay couples should not have rights, but they are trying to get them anyway. They are trying to pretend are part of normal society when their not, these domestic partnerships be removed. That is what real Californians want, not to legitimize that lifestyle.

As for the people calling me a troll, ever heard of Free Speech?

[Mister Mappy]

First of all, who are the MORMONS to decide marriage is between ONE man & ONE woman, when Joseph Smith had 40 wives, and polygamy was only abandoned so Utah could become a state?

Second of all, if civil unions/domestic partnerships are good enough for gays, then they are certainly good enough for the straights. You can go have your ceremony at the local chapter of the church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Polygamists, or St. Chester the Molestor Catholic church, or the Holy Rock of Intolerance Baptist church, but you don't get ANY benefits until you & your beloved gets your butts down to the courthouse and have your civil union/domestic partnership ceremony. (Yeah, I'm not too thrilled with Christians of any cloth today, can't ya tell?)

Too bad for California. Hopefully this will reversed soon. I just hope there isn't a ripple effect to other states.

[tangodoodles]

I've always wondered why exactly some people seem so afraid of society's acceptance of homosexuality. So I'm going to propose a theory. Yes on 8 people, please feel free to jump in and tell me whether this is your fear or it is something else.

Okay, so for the past two or so months we've been hearing again and again, "We must protect the children! No homo education in school!" although several reliable sources have stated that it would not be compulsory and children could easily avoid it with a permission slip to move to other activities. Another thing I've heard, albeit from less people, is the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I find that view completely inane and ignorant but I think they might say that for a reason.

So, I'm wondering if the reason you're so concerned about no homosexual education in school and you're convinced that homosexuality is a choice is because you're terrified your child will be gay. I mean, some parents who are deeply religious would probably feel some blame for their child's sexuality but if they have certain scapegoats they could escape responsibility. They want to keep their children from ever hearing about homosexuality so that even if their child is born gay that child will never hear about homosexuality as being anything but abnormal which probably means that the child will be immensely unhappy and may even marry someone of the opposite sex and have children, all while being miserable for their entire lives. Also, about the choice issue, maybe if they believe it is biological then they believe it is their fault for passing on the gene but if they can claim that it is a choice they can say that their child is choosing to be a "sexual deviant" and they had no say in the matter. They might even be able to convince themselves that their child can go to one of those unethical anti-gay ministries to be "fixed."

Anyway, that is my "Fear Theory" of why religious people are trying at all costs to keep homosexuality from being accepted in any way.

[AuburnJack]

Originally Posted by Mister Mappy

Second of all, if civil unions/domestic partnerships are good enough for gays, then they are certainly good enough for the straights.

Exactly.

You'll never hear a Prop 8 supporter acknowledge this, though, because it would mean acknowledging that a domestic partnership does not confer all of the same governmental rights and protections. Many of them, yes, but not all. And that would undermine an important falsehood that is a pillar of the "gays are gonna steal our traditions!" fear tactic.