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Old 10-29-2008, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM - Summerlin, NV
3,435 posts, read 6,984,720 times
Reputation: 682

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
This affects about 2-5% of the population and look at how much time is spent on it. I'm afraid if Prop 8 fails though conservatives will keep putting it back on the ballot. There is Prop 4, which is a parental notification law for abortions, that has failed twice before. This is the 3rd time in 4 years we have voted on this. These social conservatives only care about the "will of the voters" when it fits their agenda apparently.

I am voting NO. Let and let live and keep govt out of our personal lives.
Thats a good answer, if i lived in california, i would in fact vote NO as well, i think its retarted personally..and yea your right about keeping government out of our personal lives.

I think if something like that were to happen here it would fail, because no one really has a problem with it except for republicans, which we dont have much of here.

 
Old 10-29-2008, 06:53 PM
 
9,525 posts, read 30,465,926 times
Reputation: 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
These social conservatives only care about the "will of the voters" when it fits their agenda apparently.
Prop 8 and 4 are the direct result of a small group of social conservatives who have the will, time and organization to game the California state proposition process by repeatedly getting enough signatures on a petition to put the issue to a vote. And repeatedly the votes fail.

Isn't it interesting how many of the people in these threads do not live in California?
 
Old 10-29-2008, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids
284 posts, read 1,016,418 times
Reputation: 224
Why is homosexuality the only immoral lifestyle that people believe is a born behavior? Why not pedophilia or the desire to be commit fornication and adultery? I mean, it seems to me that if you're gay you get a pass on all of the above any way. Men who cheat on their wives with other men are told it's ok because they are born that way. Men who sleep with lots of men are told that it's ok because they are born that way. I don't understand the double standard.

The reason I do NOT believe people are born gay is that we all struggle with temptation, but some realize the benefit of controlling desire. Not only because we are all created with the knowledge of right and wrong but also for our own mental health. Living any type of immoral lifestyle ultimately leaves you in bondage and the only way some people know how to cope with it is by removing blame and trying to convince others that they can't help themselves.

I'm not giving homosexuals a pass any more than I would someone who has sex with children, animals or someone else's wife. But this is not the reason for Yes vote on Prop 8 (see my previous post for that), just a response to this type of logic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyCo View Post
Being gay is not a choice. It just is. It's like being born with blue eyes or green eyes. Did you choose to be heterosexual? Well, neither did I. Do you really equate being gay with being a drug addict?!

My daughter says she's bisexual, which means she gets hit from both sides with objections and criticism. Her sexuality can only be defined by her. I don't have the right to do that, and neither does anyone else. No matter who she chooses to marry, I'll be there to support her. That's what Prop. 8 would take away from people like her.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids
284 posts, read 1,016,418 times
Reputation: 224
I completely understand this question. I believe the answer is that government saw a benefit to supporting the marriage structure. It has historically proven to be the back bone of every thriving society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyPhoenix View Post
Nobody asks the most obvious question: Why should marriage confer rights?
Rights are individualistic. Just get marriage and all it's ramifications out of the government's control and this nonsense wont matter.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 07:23 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,012,380 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
I'm not talking about you. Your arguments were confused, but it does seem that you support a shadow marriage that confers all the rights of real marriage. Fine by me. And you won't tell me to my face that God hates **** or that people like me will destroy society. You're not a real bigot. Those are the folks I'm talking about.
Not to deviate from the debate but I would like to clarify something please. God does NOT hate homosexuals (or "****" as you want to put it). There is no where in the Bible in which He states a hatred towards those who practice homosexuality. He just hates the act of homosexual sex just as He hates other sin but HE does NOT hate the sinner. Jesus came and died on the cross for EACH of us, whether we are homosexual or heterosexual. His gift of salvation is available to each of us who turns to Him. We all struggle with sin but God can help free us from the power of sin. All we need to do is turn to Him and accept His free gift of salvation.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM - Summerlin, NV
3,435 posts, read 6,984,720 times
Reputation: 682
Well asking questions why people are gay and why they would wanna live their lifestyle is simply their business, just like me i choose to like the same sex and opposite and so what i honestly would never get married to another man however, if people want to like the same sex its fine especially if they wanna marry them..its the way they live their life most know what they are doing and if it makes them happy why take away their rights? its something that no one should ever question.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,993,162 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
I respect your opinion that being gay is not a choice and i understand why people want to belive it but I believe it is a learned and choice behaviour.
I don't have a problem with anyone being gay but i just don't see two gay's as husband and wife, my niece is gay and we love each other just the same.
I don't mean to say gay's are like drug addicts I just meant that I wouldn't support something I didn't agree with

How could you possibly vote FOR 8 when your niece is gay? I love my nieces and nephews dearly and would do everything possible to make their lives better and would seriously hurt anyone that might harm them. Voting FOR this prop is making your niece's future less than ideal, wouldn't you think?
 
Old 10-29-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,345,447 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
How could you possibly vote FOR 8 when your niece is gay? I love my nieces and nephews dearly and would do everything possible to make their lives better and would seriously hurt anyone that might harm them. Voting FOR this prop is making your niece's future less than ideal, wouldn't you think?
It's really simple, I am an independant person who thinks for themself, I don't have to agree with someone else or follow along just because they believe one thing and I don't, My Niece agrees with me.
 
Old 10-29-2008, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
6,588 posts, read 17,544,859 times
Reputation: 9462
Who said that if you're gay, you have license to leave your morals at the door?! Cheating on your wife is bad, period. Being promiscuous is bad, period, whether you're gay or straight.

Maybe pedophilia is an inborn behavior. That behavior harms children; that's precisely why it is unacceptable in our society. Being gay hurts no one. I think more damage is done when gay people try to act straight, and then later on hurt their spouse and children because they realize they can't live a lie for the rest of their lives.

You speak of "controlling desire". Gay people aren't attracted to the opposite sex, so would you sentence them to live that life when they'd be miserable? Or should they stay single forever? Why take away a person's basic right to love another?!

I think gay marriage serves to tell gay people that they don't have to suppress their sexuality in unhealthy ways, that they can be in relationships just like the rest of us. And that's why I'm voting "no" on Tuesday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanna_house View Post
Why is homosexuality the only immoral lifestyle that people believe is a born behavior? Why not pedophilia or the desire to be commit fornication and adultery? I mean, it seems to me that if you're gay you get a pass on all of the above any way. Men who cheat on their wives with other men are told it's ok because they are born that way. Men who sleep with lots of men are told that it's ok because they are born that way. I don't understand the double standard.

The reason I do NOT believe people are born gay is that we all struggle with temptation, but some realize the benefit of controlling desire. Not only because we are all created with the knowledge of right and wrong but also for our own mental health. Living any type of immoral lifestyle ultimately leaves you in bondage and the only way some people know how to cope with it is by removing blame and trying to convince others that they can't help themselves.

I'm not giving homosexuals a pass any more than I would someone who has sex with children, animals or someone else's wife. But this is not the reason for Yes vote on Prop 8 (see my previous post for that), just a response to this type of logic.

Last edited by SandyCo; 10-29-2008 at 10:02 PM..
 
Old 10-29-2008, 08:39 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,993,162 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
It's really simple, I am an independant person who thinks for themself, I don't have to agree with someone else or follow along just because they believe one thing and I don't, My Niece agrees with me.

Could I ask how old your niece is? Has she had much experiences with the laws as an adult or with a partner? What is her rationale for "agreeing with you"?
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