The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Orange, Montclair: stores, activity)

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee

Here is an interesting question:

Say you have a lesbian couple, but one of the two gets a sex change and becomes a man. Is this marriage legal under prop 8?

Here is the interesting answer. A woman that has a sex change and is now a legal man, can marry a woman and it is a legal marriage. A man who is now a woman, not a transexual, can marry a man, but not a woman. When he was a man, he could marry a woman. Isn't there a conundrum here?

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by LovelyinLa

This is not a civil rights issue. If it were a civil rights issue it would be saying that only a particular man (i.e. Black, White, etc.) could be married. As it stands, ALL men are allowed to get married. No, this is about redefining marriage. So as for the genius remark, right back at you.

No. your argument is about redifining what a "homosexual" is. By its very definition, it is understood that gays and lesbians are a distinct class in california society that deserve equal protection under the law. to use the argument that gays can marry the opposite sex only is defying the foundation of the gays' freedom to exercise the right to build a life with someone of his own sex (the definition)

btw, i found this website where you can order FREE mormon goodies at their expense. you can even have some of the mormon bigots come to your door and throw dildos at them. just kidding. you just might learn something about where they are coming from.

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Hey, everyone, there's going to be a national protest of Prop 8 on Friday November 15 at 10:30 Pacific Time/1:30 Eastern Time. For Californians there are locations in San Diego, Los Angeles, Bakersfield, Sacramento, San Francisco, San Jose, and Moreno Valley. I will be attending the San Francisco protest at City Hall. Here's the link to the nationwide protest locations: Join the Impact - Protest Prop 8 on November 15th! » Find Your Protest Location. I hope some of you get to come out to these protests.

Given that I have only five days left for the protest and Eureka is 300 miles from San Francisco and more than 400 from Portland Oregon. I will use my internet skills and work on adding Eureka to the list. We have a fair gay population here in Northern Californiam mostly lesbian by percentage here in Humboldt county.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by wehotex

btw, i found this website where you can order FREE mormon goodies at their expense. you can even have some of the mormon bigots come to your door and throw dildos at them. just kidding. you just might learn something about where they are coming from.

Mormon.org - Home

Trust me. Mormons wrote the book on riding out enemies. From the time we enter school, we're ridiculed and taunted. We get it from not only classmates, but also teachers. Neighbors, Coworkers, Peers, Colleagues, everyone. Prejudice leveled at me because Im gay is far less than the negativity I've experienced because of my religious affiliation.

But I do wonder aloud...
1. What Law did The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints break?

2. How is the Mormon Church's stance on gay marriage any different from the Catholic Church and Most Baptist and Evangelical Churches? Both groups whose votes far outnumber Mormons as a voting block in CA.

And...
3. How is attacking a Church because its members stood up for their beliefs, not, in and of itself, Bigotry?

But I digress, I realize that attacking Mormons is not political suicide the way attacking Blacks would be. Not to mention Catholics.

I would however like to point out, that The Mormon Church did not involve itself into Prop 8 until the Catholic Arch Bishop of San Francisco wrote a letter to the LDS President asking for help. But don't worry, please keep up the attacks against us, I dont think you fully realize how much it hurts your cause. In fact, does anyone doubt another vote today would not only pass Prop 8 but this time, probably by an even bigger margin?

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Trust me. Mormons wrote the book on riding out enemies. From the time we enter school, we're ridiculed and taunted. We get it from not only classmates, but also teachers. Neighbors, Coworkers, Peers, Colleagues, everyone. Prejudice leveled at me because Im gay is far less than the negativity I've experienced because of my religious affiliation.

But I do wonder aloud...
1. What Law did The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints break?

2. How is the Mormon Church's stance on gay marriage any different from the Catholic Church and Most Baptist and Evangelical Churches? Both groups whose votes far outnumber voters Mormons.

And...
3. How is attacking a Church because its members stood up for their beliefs, not, in and of itself, Bigotry?

But I digress, I realize that attacking Mormons is not political suicide the way attacking Blacks would be. Not to mention Catholics.

I would however like to point out, that The Mormon Church did not involve itself into Prop 8 until the Catholic Arch Bishop of San Francisco wrote a letter to the LDS President asking for help. But don't worry, please keep up the attacks against us, I dont think you fully realize how much it hurts your cause. In fact, does anyone doubt another vote today would not only pass Prop 8 but this time, probably by an even bigger margin?

The catholics are too busy throwing money at their pedophile priest cases and sheltering illegal aliens. since when do the mormons have to agree with anything that the catholic church asks them to do? the church could have had the moral upper hand by saying that there are much graver problems in today's world that need fixing. but the mormons just had to stick their big fat rich butts into depriving gay californians of their natural rights instead of helping poor folks.
I will hate mormons for as long as i live and know that there is a special place in hell for them.

[akm4]

I'm not attacking the Mormon religion. My only point in bringing LDS into my argument is them largely funding the Yes on 8 campaign while retaining their tax exempt status. Be a church or be a PAC. You can't have both.

I'm sorry to hear you were treated so badly because of your faith.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by wehotex

I will hate mormons for as long as i live and know that there is a special place in hell for them.

So....do 70% of Blacks have a special place in hell to?

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Trust me. Mormons wrote the book on riding out enemies. From the time we enter school, we're ridiculed and taunted. We get it from not only classmates, but also teachers. Neighbors, Coworkers, Peers, Colleagues, everyone. Prejudice leveled at me because Im gay is far less than the negativity I've experienced because of my religious affiliation.

But I do wonder aloud...
1. What Law did The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints break?

2. How is the Mormon Church's stance on gay marriage any different from the Catholic Church and Most Baptist and Evangelical Churches? Both groups whose votes far outnumber Mormons as a voting block in CA.

And...
3. How is attacking a Church because its members stood up for their beliefs, not, in and of itself, Bigotry?

But I digress, I realize that attacking Mormons is not political suicide the way attacking Blacks would be. Not to mention Catholics.

I would however like to point out, that The Mormon Church did not involve itself into Prop 8 until the Catholic Arch Bishop of San Francisco wrote a letter to the LDS President asking for help. But don't worry, please keep up the attacks against us, I dont think you fully realize how much it hurts your cause. In fact, does anyone doubt another vote today would not only pass Prop 8 but this time, probably by an even bigger margin?

That's very true. From a young age, non-Mormons are basically taught that Mormons are an easy target because they are an "other" much like Obama was an "other" who was much different than the typical Presidential nominee. You'd think that with the amount of persecution Mormons have suffered, they would be less quick to persecute gays and gay rights. So, I'll stop looking down on and talking smack about Mormons when they do the same for gays and stop donating millions to prevent gay marriage. As for the persecution angle, all I can say is, two wrongs don't make a right and an eye for and eye makes the whole world blind. People shouldn't treat Mormons the way they do but Mormons shouldn't treat gays the way they do.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by akm4

I'm not attacking the Mormon religion. My only point in bringing LDS into my argument is them largely funding the Yes on 8 campaign while retaining their tax exempt status. Be a church or be a PAC. You can't have both.

I'm sorry to hear you were treated so badly because of your faith.

Thanks but Im totally used to it. Being Gay and Mormon means your a walking target. LOL

And as far being a PAC. The Church did not donate one penny into the Prop 8 Campaign. The Church asked members to participate if they were so inclined. There was no coersion and certainly no retribution to anyone who chose not to help out. In fact, most Mormons in California didnt even donate any money. And many Mormons in California were against Prop 8.

What we are seeing now is the unfair singling out of an entire church whose members excercised their right to participate in the political process.

If anything, Mormons can be accused of being too generous.

If any tax laws were broken, we'd know by now because it would be splattered all over the media.

In the meantime, most Mormons are not reacting to this the way I think opponents are thinking. My parents congregation had to hold meetings at another chapel yesterday cause their chapel was being pickted and had to be locked.

Anyway, Mom says that there was a very small mention to Prop 8 and it was only to explain why they were meeting at this other place. Other than that, meetings were no different from any other sunday.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

That's very true. From a young age, non-Mormons are basically taught that Mormons are an easy target because they are an "other" much like Obama was an "other" who was much different than the typical Presidential nominee. You'd think that with the amount of persecution Mormons have suffered, they would be less quick to persecute gays and gay rights. So, I'll stop looking down on and talking smack about Mormons when they do the same for gays and stop donating millions to prevent gay marriage. As for the persecution angle, all I can say is, two wrongs don't make a right and an eye for and eye makes the whole world blind. People shouldn't treat Mormons the way they do but Mormons shouldn't treat gays the way they do.

You make an EXCELLENT point. And in the context you make your point, I'd have to agree.

But there is more to consider than just saying two wrongs dont make a right. That's not the issue at all from a religious standpoint.