moving to palmdale, ca - questions (Los Angeles, San Francisco: mortgage, loans, real estate)

[dubl_xl]

I currently reside in Lancaster, due to economic circumstances and will say if you must work in Palmdale then look into living in the Santa Clarita/Valencia area. It is very nice, relatively low crime and has great parks and shopping. There will be virtually no traffic commuting north on the 14 fwy in the morning towards Palmdale and it will be about a 30 minute drive. I'm moving my family there as soon as financially possible. I am also a snowboarder and tend to stay away from Mountain High, which is more like a 45 minute drive from Palmdale. Hit up Bear Mountain in the Big Bear area or make the 3.5 hour drive to Mammoth for some epic boarding. I hope this information was helpful.

[ShadowHills]

According to my friend who is a LT at the Sheriffs Department, they have 15 units assigned to the east side of Palmdale and just 5 assigned to the westside of Palmdale. Need I say more!

If you can stay out of both Palmdale and Lacaster and move to Acton Or Aqua Dulce just below Palmdale

[AV Native]

Keep in mind there's much more the the Antelope Valley than just Palmdale or just Lancaster. In the unincorporated part of the Valley there are many very liveable, safe, communities. . . and not just limited to the urban escapes of Acton and Agua Dulce (which are the "Beverly Hills" and "Bel Air" of our local area, so to speak, rustic in charm they may be).

Discover the land mass that is one quarter of Los Angeles County, which is the last undeveloped large chunk of geography left in the entire county - and is its future from a growth perspective: the Antelope Valley! All of it. And that's only a portion of the entire geographical Antelope Valley. . . The Antelope Valley is so geographically huge it encompasses the southeastern part of Kern County as well!

One Valley, taking up space in two counties. . . that's a huge piece of land to consider. Broaden your horizons. Look beyond incorporated cities to the unincorporated communities. You'll be glad you did!

s/AV Native

[T-TIME]

Hey anybody out there heard any information on the "3" Low Income Public Housing "PROJECTS" relocating to the Antelope Valley? I've been hearing that Nickerson Gardens, Jordan Downs and Imperial Courts housing projects are being relocated from Watts (L.A) to the A.V. If anyone has any information on this please reply!

[AV Native]

Originally Posted by T-TIME

Hey anybody out there heard any information on the "3" Low Income Public Housing "PROJECTS" relocating to the Antelope Valley? I've been hearing that Nickerson Gardens, Jordan Downs and Imperial Courts housing projects are being relocated from Watts (L.A) to the A.V. If anyone has any information on this please reply!

I've heard this unsubstantiated rumor before. It never comes with any named sources. Not true, AFAIK.

BTW, by law every California municipality must provide a certain percentage of low income housing, whether the city is San Marino, Beverly Hills, Compton, or Inglewood. So to just uproot three large "projects" like Nickerson Gardens, et al, to the Antelope Valley makes no sense. The percentages would go wildly over the mark. The scale of the relocation, if it is ever done at this time, would have to be extremely reduced.

Furthermore, the Antelope Valley cities within Los Angeles County - Palmdale and Lancaster - have ordinances preventing such projects as Nickerson Gardens. We Antelope Valleyites have learned from the failures of what folks have done "down below," and we aim to not repeat them. The respective city ordinances require a geographical dispersion of low income housing, and do not allow a concentration. Just ask Palmdale Mayor Jim Ledford about this issue sometime. . . he has stated Palmdale's position on this many a time to the public.

s/AV Native

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by AV Native

I've heard this unsubstantiated rumor before. It never comes with any named sources. Not true, AFAIK. s/AV Native

I have a source INSIDE LA Co DPSS and there IS a deliberate policy to locate ghettoids out of these three 1940s housing projects into Palmdale, Lake Los Angeles and Lancaster. At this time, they are slowly moving "families" out of Jordan Downs, due to the dilapidation of the buildings (mostly caused by tennant abuse) and next will come the gigantic and notorious Nickerson Gardens, also a dilapidated mess. The previously mentioned projects are almost 100% black and are thoroughly infested with gangs and crack cocaine. The buildings and plant at all three of these facilities are dilapidated beyond any reasonable repair, as was reported by the LA Times a few years back, and, per state and county housing codes, all are up for condemnation. Currently, Jordan Downs, the one they're moving all this trash from to come up here, IS condemned and is in the worst condition. Jordan Downs was built circa 1947 and presaged the decline of the entire area.

On top of this, there are many black "entrepreneurs" currently getting investors together to buy up AV existing homes solely for the purpose of using them for Section 8 rentals. They tend to spend nothing on maintaining the house, and know they're guaranteed at least a part of the rent every month, courtesy of the Feds. I know, because one just bought one on my street and told the neighbor, "Ah dun care what yooz do...we'z coming up heeyuh and de whi' peepo are gwine OUT!" So much of "AV Native's" view on things.

<quoting>BTW, by law every California municipality must provide a certain percentage of low income housing, whether the city is San Marino, Beverly Hills, Compton, or Inglewood. So to just uproot three large "projects" like Nickerson Gardens, et al, to the Antelope Valley makes no sense. <snip>

The hell it doesn't. Section 8 and "California Low Income Housing" are two different things entirely. Section 8 is Federal, being passed into law in 1937. That land under Nickerson, Jordan Downs and Imperial (all built with Federal funding after WWII) is VERY valuable. The plan is to uproot all the ghettoids out of the old projects, ship them out here and then bulldoze the projects and redevelop the whole area into pricy townhomes and large houses. Well connected developers have been planning this for years...denegro-ize the south end of LA, and redevelop it, getting such parcels as the county's "projects" for pennies on the dollar and reaping huge profits, dumping all the displaced trash in the less desireable Antelope Valley.

<quoting again>Furthermore, the Antelope Valley cities within Los Angeles County - Palmdale and Lancaster - have ordinances preventing such projects as Nickerson Gardens. <snip>

The last "projects" built in LA county went up around 1950, when Mayor Fletcher Bowren still believed in "public housing" for the poor, one of the reasons he was defeated by Poulsen. The current philosophy is to use Section 8 to diffuse such people among the whole of a community, thus preventing the culture of gangs and uselessness that prevailed in such projects. Nice idea, but the problem is that this trash tends to take their friends and dozens of relatives and their bad living habits (and prediliction for crime) with them, and the whole community goes down the crapper.

<quoting again> We Antelope Valleyites have learned from the failures of what folks have done "down below," and we aim to not repeat them. The respective city ordinances require a geographical dispersion of low income housing, and do not allow a concentration. Just ask Palmdale Mayor Jim Ledford about this issue sometime. . . he has stated Palmdale's position on this many a time to the public. <snip>

EVERYONE knew government housing projects yielded exactly the kind of messes that are at Nickerson, Jordan and Imperial by around 1965! Where did the Watts riots in '65 come from? Nickerson Gardens. Meanwhile, "Lead-ass" continues to try to mollify pissed off homeowners with talk about "regulating" Section 8, but does precious little other than throw some $15K toward a part-time fraud investigator. At least Lancaster has a full time...ONE full time...fraud investigator. Seems they'd rather spend the taxpayers' money on giveaways to developers and corporate interests and building huge, questionable soccer fields.

Face it...Palmdale/Lancaster is becoming the social cesspool for LA county's least desireable residents. Section 8 will be rampant in both cities, despite platitudes by hacks like Ledford and, especially, the head of the Lancaster negro community, Hearne in Lancaster.

GET OUT NOW! The market in the AV will collapse hard in the next five years, due to Section 8 poisoning of reasonable neighborhoods and overdevelopment fostered by political hacks and greedy developers in both cities.

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by ShadowHills

According to my friend who is a LT at the Sheriffs Department, they have 15 units assigned to the east side of Palmdale and just 5 assigned to the westside of Palmdale.

Per LASD, violent crime in Palmdale increased 100% so far over last year, with a 30% increase in Lancaster. As more Jordan Downs refugees arrive to gobble up Section 8 houses, look for that number to double, perhaps triple, as home prices fall through the floor.

GET OUT NOW! DO NOT TRUST A REALTOR!

[AV Native]

Originally Posted by DeserTBoB

I have a source INSIDE LA Co DPSS and there IS a deliberate policy to locate ghettoids out of these three 1940s housing projects into Palmdale, Lake Los Angeles and Lancaster. [snip]

On top of this, there are many black "entrepreneurs" currently getting investors together to buy up AV existing homes solely for the purpose of using them for Section 8 rentals. They tend to spend nothing on maintaining the house, and know they're guaranteed at least a part of the rent every month, courtesy of the Feds. I know, because one just bought one on my street and told the neighbor, "Ah dun care what yooz do...we'z coming up heeyuh and de whi' peepo are gwine OUT!" So much of "AV Native's" view on things.

[snipping out my own previous comments]

The hell it doesn't. Section 8 and "California Low Income Housing" are two different things entirely. Section 8 is Federal, being passed into law in 1937. [snip] Well connected developers have been planning this for years...denegro-ize the south end of LA, and redevelop it, getting such parcels as the county's "projects" for pennies on the dollar and reaping huge profits, dumping all the displaced trash in the less desireable Antelope Valley.

[snipping out my own previous comments]

The last "projects" built in LA county went up around 1950, when Mayor Fletcher Bowren still believed in "public housing" for the poor, one of the reasons he was defeated by Poulsen. [snip]

[snipping out my own previous comments]

EVERYONE knew government housing projects yielded exactly the kind of messes that are at Nickerson, Jordan and Imperial by around 1965! Where did the Watts riots in '65 come from? Nickerson Gardens. Meanwhile, "Lead-ass" continues to try to mollify pissed off homeowners with talk about "regulating" Section 8, but does precious little other than throw some $15K toward a part-time fraud investigator. [snip]

Face it...Palmdale/Lancaster is becoming the social cesspool for LA county's least desireable residents. Section 8 will be rampant in both cities, despite platitudes by hacks like Ledford. . . [snip}

GET OUT NOW! The market in the AV will collapse hard in the next five years, due to Section 8 poisoning of reasonable neighborhoods and overdevelopment fostered by political hacks and greedy developers in both cities.

Oh, what a tangled web you weave, Bob. . . Where to start? Not gonna answer every charge you bring up here, but instead of giving some of the whole truth and giving illogical, emotional conclusions as you do, I prefer taking the high road and report the facts. The readers may draw their own conclusions, as they ought. (Notice I'm not shouting in all caps like you do. . .)

The rules for this board given to us by the moderators state that we cannot post copyrighted material. Nevertheless, may I point you and other readers to that Great Suburban Newspaper whose name will go unmentioned (local Antelope Valleyites that are civically aware will know which newspaper I'm referring to).

Some of the facts reported from that very newspaper this very month are:

• According to Norm Hickling, Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich's field deputy for the Antelope Valley, the Los Angeles County Housing Authority is being "very aggressive" regarding the occupiers of Section 8 properties that cheat the rules.

• According to Hickling, due to the support of that Great Suburban Newspaper and their -along with other local valley media - publicizing the special Section 8 fraud, abuse, and neglect hotline to the County - (877) 881-7233 - sweeps conducted due to citizens calling the aforementioned County telephone number "are very effective." "A lot of calls have come in," Hickling stated as he addressed the monthly Quartz Hill Chamber of Commerce gathering at a local restaurant.

• Hickling further states Antonovich wants the owner - who typically is absentee and just collects the rent while not adding to the quality of life of the community - to be held accountable as well. The Supervisor is seeking to add a "crime free agreement" to existing and new Section 8 lease agreements without resorting to legislation to do so. This would compel the property owner to take action against illegal activity on their property, on pain of losing said property. Hickling mentioned that Antonovich recently met with Secretary of HUD Alphonso Jackson in Washington DC, who commented: "Do it."

• Additionally, Hickling let it be known that Nuisance Abatement Teams are coming. They "will be able to get action for you" (regarding Section 8 and other nuisance issues), the Supervisor's deputy said.

More to come. . .

s/AV Native

[AV Native]

Continuing my previous missive. . .

Some more of the facts reported from that Great Suburban Newspaper which happens to be locally owned and in family hands unlike the other newspapers that circulate for sale here:

• Los Angeles County records show that 180 Palmdale Section 8 voucher holders have been terminated from the program in the last thirteen months due to a variety of fraud.

• Those same records show that 156 Lancaster Section 8 voucher holders have also been terminated from the program in the same thirteen month period.

• Additionally, the same records list two unincorporated Los Angeles County portion of the Antelope Valley Section 8 voucher holders as terminated from the program during the last thirteen month period.

• Grand Total of Section 8 terminations to date: 338.

• At the end of July, 2006 the County of Los Angeles kept tabs on 1,168 Section 8 voucher holders in Palmdale, 1,885 in Lancaster, and 84 in the unincorporated areas of the Antelope Valley within Los Angeles County. Grand Total of Section 8 housing vouchers: 3,137.

• Only eight recommended Section 8 terminations were overturned on appeal, just for the record.

• According to Norm Hickling, field deputy in the Antelope Valley for Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich, the Fifth District Supervisor wants to double the amount of money available for investigating Section 8 fraud. The County and the cities involved - Palmdale and Lancaster - are in the process now to determine how to put these additional monies to their best use to combat Section 8 fraud, according to the news report I've been citing in this post.

• Since March, 2005 the local Section 8 fraud investigator, Gary Brody, has been working ten hours a week for the City of Palmdale, and ten hours a week for unincorporated areas of the Antelope Valley. Beginning yesterday, August 15, 2006, Brody was scheduled to be approved by the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors to work an additional twelve hours on behalf of the City of Palmdale, bringing his total work hours to 32 hours a week. (When I get the official report back from yesterday's Board of Supervisor's meeting, I'll gladly post it here for everyone.) The inference drawn - as reported in the news report - is that Palmdale City Hall is happy with the work Brody is doing. In fact, Kelly Long of the city's Public Safety Department was quoted as saying, "that investigations team is phenomenal."

Extrapolating from this news report, I find that just shy of ten per cent - 9.72 percent, to be precise - lost their Section 8 vouchers Valleywide in the last thirteen months. (3137 continued Section 8 holders + 338 recently terminated Section 8 holders = 3475 total holders before Section 8 fraud crackdown. . . taking 338/3475 = 0.0972, or 9.72 per cent.)

With more financial resources and the Nuisance Abatement Teams forming in the near future, the future may well be looking bleaker for Section 8 tenants and landlords who abuse the system and cheat the taxpayers, adding nothing to the community. . . and actually, take away from it. The outlook - from my factual, holistic, taking a look at all the data perspective, looks to be on the mend regarding this issue. Remarks such as "get out now!" and "don't trust a Realtor!" are in my view unfounded. But let's let the readers of this board decide, eh?

And Bob, nice to read some of the regional history you present. Always looking to be enlightened, no matter the source.

s/AV Native

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by AV Native

Oh, what a tangled web you weave, Bob. . . Where to start? Not gonna answer every charge you bring up here

...because you cannot refute same. My source in DPSS is solid and confirmed, and the "Section 8" industry out here is booming. If you look at the number of occupants in the three condemned projects, half this entire valley will be Section 8 at the completion of the current "migration" project. I opine that you're shilling for someone/something, and don't really care who/what. The crime stats speak for themselves, I don't care how much window dressing the local Repug political hacks want to try to put on it or spin it. Palmdale/Lancaster will be the new "superghetto," and south LA/Compton/Inglewood will be redeveloped around 2020. Even without Section 8, much of Compton (home to LA's infamous black gangs) has already moved up here, due to the ongoing political corruption and crime in that city. Inglewood, as well. Problem is, those people tend to bring their nasty little habits with them. What happened to Compton and Inglewood in the '50s and '60s is now happening here. History has an odd way of repeating itself, especially to those too dumb to learn from it. I had a grand aunt who lived for years in Inglewood in the '40s. She'd spin like a top in her grave to see that place now!

• According to Norm Hickling, Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich's field deputy for the Antelope Valley, the Los Angeles County Housing Authority is being "very aggressive" regarding the occupiers of Section 8 properties that cheat the rules.

Anyone who knows anyone in LACHA knows better. Antonovich is just another politcal hack trying to oil the roiled waters. He's been a politcal hack ever since that hatchet job he did on Baxter Ward years ago to make a home for himself after gerrymandering his district to make it "safe." Funny how the very thing that Antonovich used to butcher Ward, rail transit, is now a much-needed countywide reality, no thanks at all to Antonovich. Steve Lopez in the Times neatly skewered Antonovich in a column last week. Good work, Steve!

• According to Hickling, due to the support of that Great Suburban Newspaper

HAHAHA! The Valley Press isn't a newspaper, it's a bird cage liner. The only interest that rag holds is for high school football fans, right wing fruitcakes and church nutters. As far as reality goes, it's useless.

• Hickling further states Antonovich wants the owner - who typically is absentee and just collects the rent while not adding to the quality of life of the community - to be held accountable as well. The Supervisor is seeking to add a "crime free agreement" to existing and new Section 8 lease agreements without resorting to legislation to do so. This would compel the property owner to take action against illegal activity on their property, on pain of losing said property. Hickling mentioned that Antonovich recently met with Secretary of HUD Alphonso Jackson in Washington DC, who commented: "Do it."

Suuuuuuuuuure, he did. All this 'dog and pony' work by Antonovich is all too typical (actually, typical of all the supes, and was made into an artform in the '70s by Kenny Hahn, the county's millionaire janitor from City Hall). In order for anything to come of any of this (presuming any of it actually happens, which is dubious) there has to be CRIME AND FRAUD FIRST. Thus, the community into which the ghettoids have been transplanted has already been degraded. Too late! Political kneejerks doth not a good community make.

• Additionally, Hickling let it be known that Nuisance Abatement Teams are coming.

If you believe that, I have a nice, big green bridge to Terminal Island I'd like to sell to you. Earthquake retrofitting's on you, however.

• They "will be able to get action for you" (regarding Section 8 and other nuisance issues), the Supervisor's deputy said.

More to come. . .

I can hardly wait. Not that I care...I'm dumping my property here and moving on. Bad climate...single industry economy...overcrowding...pollution...and now a booming Section 8 industry. CASH OUT AND GET OUT NOW! If you don't live here, move elsewhere, as this place sucks and willst sucketh harder in the near future. Another poster's suggestion of Valencia's a fair choice, if you work in LA or up here.

My family's been in and closely around LA since 1876, a year before "Old Bill" Mulholland stepped off the boat in 'Pedro. We know where the skeletons are and who put them there. All this shilling and political spin is laughable to us, especially when people are stupid enough to believe it.