moving to palmdale, ca - questions (Bakersfield, Santa Clarita: fit in, apartment, rental)

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by AV Native

• According to Hickling, due to the support of that Great Suburban Newspaper and their -along with other local valley media - publicizing the special Section 8 fraud, abuse, and neglect hotline to the County - (877) 881-7233 - sweeps conducted due to citizens calling the aforementioned County telephone number "are very effective." "A lot of calls have come in," Hickling stated as he addressed the monthly Quartz Hill Chamber of Commerce gathering at a local restaurant.

• Hickling further states Antonovich wants the owner - who typically is absentee and just collects the rent while not adding to the quality of life of the community - to be held accountable as well. The Supervisor is seeking to add a "crime free agreement" to existing and new Section 8 lease agreements without resorting to legislation to do so. This would compel the property owner to take action against illegal activity on their property, on pain of losing said property. Hickling mentioned that Antonovich recently met with Secretary of HUD Alphonso Jackson in Washington DC, who commented: "Do it."

"AV Native" likes to tell tall tales. Here's the reality:

Recently, the LA County Sheriff's Substation was called in regards to a Section 8 renter growing marijuana on the rental property. The response? "Mind your own business." All this fluffy talk about "Section 8 enforcement" is simply "spin" designed to stem the flow of middle class homeowners as much as possible. The reality is that the LA County Sheriff's Department is NOT on board with any such "Section 8 enforcement" program, anywhere in the Antelope Valley. They're undermanned, and too busy with drive-bys, home invasions and murders to be bothered with ghettoids violating "Section 8 rules."

• Additionally, Hickling let it be known that Nuisance Abatement Teams are coming. They "will be able to get action for you" (regarding Section 8 and other nuisance issues), the Supervisor's deputy said.

All political spin to make Antonovich, Hearne and "Lead-ass" look good, promulgated by that Great Suburban Bird Cage Liner, the Antelope Valley Press, their political boot licker. It's all show, no go. I know the principals involved in the above-related incident, and know them to be honest people.

If you own a home in the Antelope Valley now, SELL. Take what you can get, don't be a "pig." If you are getting or transferring to employment at Plant 42, LIVE ELSEWHERE. In five years, Palmdale/Lancaster will be a "superghetto" with all the attendent crime, failed schools, filth and cultural garbage that goes with it. In fact, in most places, that's already happened, as any resident here can plainly state. Don't fall for the politicos' and the real estate hogs' lies.

Don't wait until I have to tell you, "I told ya so!"

[AV Native]

Bob,

Let me explain where I'm coming from.

Like you, my family has very deep roots in California, and Southern California. My Great Grandmother was born in Los Angeles in 1876, and one of her kin is buried in Visalia, coming to the San Joaquin Valley in the 1860's. My Grandparents lived up north (Alameda) in the 1930's time period when my Grandfather worked for the San Francisco Examiner, among other papers, as a typesetter back in the days of hot type. . . and when he retired from the business, the International Typographical Union gave him a gold watch in honor of his service. I still remember him showing it to me as a child. He also was awarded a 50 year pin for his continuous service to the union and the newspaper industry in that capacity.

My father after completing high school, served a three year hitch post World War II in the old Army Air Corps (before it was renamed the US Air Force). Through the GI Bill, he was able to attend National Schools (now National University) and earned technical certification in electronics. FCC license newly in hand, he set about to find a place to use his skills and provide for his new family. He left Inglewood and Los Angeles behind (yes, that part of the LA megalopolis that Bob loves to talk about so much. . . btw back then it was all "white". . .) and moved to. . . the Antelope Valley. He landed a job at a small inconsequential company called Northrop at Plant 42.

In 1954 our (then new) tract home here had no houses to the west of it, and no houses to the north. My parents recently discussed those early days with me here, and Dad recalled the coyotes howling and the tumbleweeds tumblin'. The wind would whistle and make - from their experience - a sound that could be described as unnerving. If my parents could have left at this time period in their young lives, they would have.

Thankfully, they didn't leave, and got used to the Mojave's ways. the rest of my siblings, me included (except the very youngest) were born here in that new hospital in Lancaster that used to be two stories tall and had a gravel parking lot with tons of open parking (try visualizing that today!).

Over time, the family moved on and left just me here. But in another sense, they never left. My parents, especially, have made it a point to come and visit. I know Dad would - if he could - come back here in a heartbeat. From his perspective, the Antelope Valley was that place that gave him his start in his career. It was the place where he made his early homeowner's building improvement "goofs" and silly mistakes (of no real consequence considering the larger scheme of things). And he remembers his labors and moments of relaxation here, the simple life we all had here. . . and a smile of satisfaction creases his lips. Whether or not this house was rented out or not, we have always regarded the Antelope Valley as our home. And it has nothing to do with finances or real estate speculation. It comes from having friends and associative ties to this Valley that have lasted decades. There are some things in life, Bob, that money can't buy. Friendships are one of them. I have them here in abundance. Why would I move and give them up? Makes no sense to me.

As for me, I'm not a Realtor, nor involved in any Real Estate financial interests (employment or otherwise) beyond my own self owning what I own here. Obviously, our family and I have bought low, and have decided to keep owning. . . because we take a very long range view of things. We don't "time" the real estate market, and don't speculate on land, the stock market, or even gold. Me and my family members are in it for the long haul when it comes to spending money on real estate. That's the actual record. We are who we are. . . grateful to have homes and the blessings that occupy them. Fairly simple (but very well educated) Cherokee nation people.

More to come. . .

s/AV Native

[AV Native]

You can choose who you wanna believe, Bob. Newspapers, be they the Los Angeles Times or the Antelope Valley Press have their strengths and weaknesses from a market viewpoint as well as an editorial/political viewpoint. I admire certain attributes in both papers, and have disdain for both of them in other areas that concern me. I don't take what I read in newspapers as "gospel." I check things out. My (out of state College of Business) professors taught me that much. . .

So who ya gonna believe. . . your still unnamed source deep within DPSS (I also have a source that direction) or the sources I've named and quoted (who you deride unceasingly)? Gonna go for fear mongering or be in it for the long haul and make community here and work to solve our problems as a community?

I've made my choice. I will stay here and make community and work for the reconciliation of the world. I can do no other. There's good and bad wherever you go. . . and if I were to leave, I would abandon my friends and associates of many long decades, and be totally bereft in starting over in some sterile "Sun City" or somesuch place. The easy choice is to leave, but it comes with hard consequences long term. The hard choice is to stay, which comes with easy consequences long term. I'll stay. . . but not for the reasons you think, Bob. I'm in nobody's political pocket. Don't play that game. I'm not involved in partisan politics, and will never get into that muck. Yech! I'm not a shill. I'm that rare, purposeful, resourceful, community building Antelope Valley native that actually cares about the neighborhood and community one lives in. I've traveled this continent far and wide. . . seen other cultures, been other places internationally as well as stateside. I've seen other places to live. I know what's out there in other states. I choose to stay here. You obviously choose to get out. I'll keep the light on for ya!

s/AV Native

[AV Native]

For those of you who have read Bob's various writings here, I thought I'd give a different perspective vis a vis "Get out now while you still can! It's all gonna go to the dumpsville in five years!"

As previously stated, my family came to the Antelope Valley in 1954. After Sputnik launched (1957) and the Space Race was on (read up on Cold War history somewhere to see the significance of that at the time) the US Department of Defense aviation related (not called aerospace yet) industry took a radically different direction. Instead of building airplanes, the Pentagon wanted to build the rockets and orbiters made famous in Tom Wolfe's book (and the motion picture) The Right Stuff. As we know today, build they did. Eventually the Project Mercury started. . . and as The Right Stuff is subtitled, that's How the Future Began.

The economy tumbled in the Antelope Valley. Houses were boarded up, people left for employment elsewhere - including my parents - and the Valley had an economic recession as a result of these world developments. We were gone for four years, and lived in a rented house in Marin County (wonderful memories of the Golden Gate Bridge and banana slugs and redwoods). When we got back home afterwards, I remember every third house or so being boarded up. Those conditions lasted throughout the rest of the 1960's (the Wonder Years, if you will. . . the character Kevin from that television series and I are not far apart in age).

By circa 1970 Lockheed started the L1011 Tristar project (I still remember watching that site being built. . . they had the foundation and the walls and ceiling up in a matter of days!). The economy rebounded, and slow but steady growth ensued for several years. We rented the house out as Dad had work assignments in other places during the next several years.

In the early 1980's our family - due to Northrop having a booming business regionally and Rockwell having both the B-1 Bomber and Space Shuttle work at Plant 42 - was reunited here once again. The economy here was getting better all the time, and in the Fall of 1983, Palmdale began to see - for the first time since the old housing boom of the 1950's - major residential housing being built. By 1989 the market topped out, though many didn't know it at the time. Too many developers overbuilt for the size market we were at that time, and a major recession - daresay a depression - set in by the early 1990's.

More to come. . .

s/AV Native

[AV Native]

Continuing my missive from the last post. . .

As happened during the post Sputnik era, the economy took a hit, and housing once again was boarded up. It seemed to be in the same ratio it was back then, too. . . about one in three houses seemed to be boarded up. "Upside down" mortgage holders simply walked away from their houses, often leaving them unlocked or even with the front door ajar, perhaps as a sign of disgust. We could talk about how the overabundance of FHA loans helped create a huge unsold market inventory for houses here, but I'm not a Realtor, nor a mortgage lender. . . I'll leave those details to the professionals who know the subject matter better than I. Suffice it to say the private mortgage market moved houses from vacant/unsold to occupied/sold much quicker than the FHA/HUD government folks.

So a very rough economic period for the Antelope Valley ensued from roughly 1991 to as late as perhaps 1997 - 1999. Housing was cheap to come by, and we were the bastion of affordable housing for Southern California, nay the entire Golden State. That's the reputation we've had recently in people's minds.

From circa 1999 to the present, housing and the economy here has been in a boom mode. The value of my house here tripled in that period. Still not selling. . .

The record, told here as best I remember it, shows that over my lifetime there have been two major economic downturns in the Antelope Valley - late 1950's through the 1960's; 1991-1999 - , and three major upturns: 1950-1957; 1981-1991; 1999-present. Over the long haul, the value of Antelope Valley real estate has gone up. It will continue to keep going up, long term, despite economic corrections downward. Why? God isn't making any more California real estate, and the Antelope Valley is finally getting the spillover effect the San Fernando Valley got during the post World War II period. the SF Valley was very affordable back then as the Antelope Valley is now. I believe the parallels are appropriate to make, as well as instructive.

Furthermore, after the "Rodney King" riots of 1992, a good deal of African descent folks didn't move to only the Antelope Valley. The LA Times reported during that period many moved back to - of all places - the South! Why? For many of the same reasons why I stay here in the Antelope Valley: friends and family.

So Bob has it partially right. The Antelope Valley will become - and in fact has already become - a racially diverse and integrated community. However, not all those leaving historically Black areas of the LA megalopolis are bound for the AV. Some wanna go home to relatives and family in the South (and the many job opportunities there). Some wanna go to places like Detroit and Cleveland.

But they aren't all gonna end up here. Remember that Inland Empire places such as Moreno Valley, Beaumont, and Menifee, as well as the Victor Valley, will get their share of African Americans, even those with Section 8 vouchers. Be careful crying "wolf!"

s/AV Native

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by AV Native

So who ya gonna believe. . . your still unnamed source deep within DPSS (I also have a source that direction) or the sources I've named and quoted (who you deride unceasingly)? Gonna go for fear mongering or be in it for the long haul and make community here and work to solve our problems as a community?

My source isn't a PR "happy face," but works deep within DPSS...a "worker bee," if you will. Such people always have the real story. PR shills are just that. Of course, identities of such people must be protected to prevent termination. Yes, it happens all the time in both City and County employment, despite Civil Service and union contract protections. If someone gets in the way of some clown's political (and financial) objectives, they're gone.

I've made my choice. I will stay here and make community and work for the reconciliation of the world. I can do no other.

Well, if you're stuck here, for whatever reason, you're stuck here. I'm not, and I see what's going on, and realize I don't want any part of it. If you do, that's great. The greater LA area has seen "ghettoization" already in the '40s and '50s, again in the '70s (Lake View Terrace and Altadena) and now is seeing it up here. Crime and depressed property values always follow without exception.

The easy choice is to leave, but it comes with hard consequences long term. The hard choice is to stay, which comes with easy consequences long term. I'll stay. . . but not for the reasons you think, Bob. I'm in nobody's political pocket. Don't play that game. I'm not involved in partisan politics, and will never get into that muck. Yech! I'm not a shill. I'm that rare, purposeful, resourceful, community building Antelope Valley native that actually cares about the neighborhood and community one lives in.

He who pees against wind....gets wet.

[SoCalMom]

Originally Posted by DeserTBoB

Face it...Palmdale/Lancaster is becoming the social cesspool for LA county's least desireable residents.

I absolutely agree with this statement. The Antelope Valley is the meth production capital of LA county. The place is not getting any better than it was when I lived there 6 years ago. And it was a cesspool then.

[SoCalMom]

Originally Posted by AV Native

my family has very deep roots in California

Deep roots or no deep roots, you truly have to be in deep DENIAL to not acknowledge what a ****hole the Antelope Valley is.

I don't have deep California roots. I was born and raised in NY. But I have lived in So Cal since I was 17 years old. I've lived in cities ranging from Long Beach to Huntington Beach to San Dimas and I've gotta tell you....the ****tiest area I've ever lived in was the Antelope Valley. There is just so much crime and drug use there. There's not enough work. The teens are bored, many parents travel long hours to work down below and there are tons of latchkey kids who have nothing to do but drugs and crime.

The Antelope Valley has a HUGE number of children removed from their homes by the Department and Children's Family Services which is disproportionate with the rest of LA County. Surely there's a reason for this?

I have no idea why you're taking this so personally. The truth is the truth. I have a friend up there who's a foster mom.....she lives in Palmdale. She's a great lady and she's taken in tons of kids whose parents have let them down because of drug use/molestation, etc., and this poor woman lost her own son to meth. He never graduated high school and recently began "cooking" dope with his buddies in Lake Los Angeles. It's pathetic. And they live in a beautiful 5 bedroom house, she is a stay at home mother, and her husband has a good job with So Cal Edison. They're good people. But when you lay down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas.....and that's exactly what happened with her son.

Trying to find good neighborhood pockets in the AV is like searching for a diamond in a garbage can.

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by SoCalMom

I absolutely agree with this statement. The Antelope Valley is the meth production capital of LA county.

Well, that has changed quite a bit. Large scale meth labs in northern LA county were pretty much mowed down by a DEA sweep a few years back, and the decimation of the Vagos motorcycle gang's Mojave chapter after a deadly war with the Hell's Angels broke their hold on the retail/wholesale methamphetemine trade. However, the "home cooking" of meth in mobile homes continues virtually unabated. A trained monkey can cook that stuff if they have the ingredients. Bigger lab operators simply moved into Kern and San Bernardino counties at that time where enforcement was more lax and population more sparse, and the big meth "superlabs" in Mexico still provide the bulk of the product.

The place is not getting any better than it was when I lived there 6 years ago. And it was a cesspool then.

It's getting worse. Now, instead of just whacked out tweekers, we have the ghettoid/gangbangers moving in en masse. What's sickening is the dumb white kids, the "wannabe" gangbangers that just make the entire situation worse.

[DeserTBoB]

Originally Posted by SoCalMom

The Antelope Valley has a HUGE number of children removed from their homes by the Department and Children's Family Services which is disproportionate with the rest of LA County. Surely there's a reason for this?

DFCS has as heavy a case load in the Antelope Valley as they do in the bowels of Watts, Compton and other festering sores. When taken per capita, the caseload in the Antelope Valley outpaces the rest of the county.

I have no idea why you're taking this so personally. The truth is the truth. I have a friend up there who's a foster mom.....she lives in Palmdale. She's a great lady and she's taken in tons of kids whose parents have let them down because of drug use/molestation, etc., and this poor woman lost her own son to meth. He never graduated high school and recently began "cooking" dope with his buddies in Lake Los Angeles. It's pathetic. And they live in a beautiful 5 bedroom house, she is a stay at home mother, and her husband has a good job with So Cal Edison. They're good people. But when you lay down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas.....and that's exactly what happened with her son.

A typical Antelope Valley scenario.

Trying to find good neighborhood pockets in the AV is like searching for a diamond in a garbage can.

In this area, "good" neighborhoods are going "bad" in the wink of an eye. I remember when Eastgate went down the tubes because of Section 8 ghettoid imports...now it's a war zone of run down tract houses with gunfire and sirens every weekend. The Kaufman & Broad "Traditions" tract was nice for awhile, but flim-flam financed illegals and blacks started moving in, and then the Section 8 scammers followed, and it's going down fast. Many "Bloods" members and sympathizers can be seen in former "good" neighborhoods all over Lancaster and Palmdale now. This is now going on all over the Antelope Valley.

And yes, "denial" isn't just a river in Egypt anymore. I just feel fortunate that I was able to more than triple my money on that house and get out with over $330K. Prices will collapse hard in the next few years, just like they did in the collapse of '90. The boom/bust cycle of an area too far away from LA to be an effective "bedroom community" will continue, and get worse as the area is "ghettoized." Forget about the idiot "commuters"...gasoline is too expensive now to make driving back and forth a viable option.