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Old 11-15-2008, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,266,865 times
Reputation: 592
Default How many are thinking of leaving California?

I was born in Los Angeles and grew up in Southern California (mainly LA and Ventura county) and am pretty much committed to living the state at this point despite the fact that all my family (and wife's family) are in the state.

I lived for a bit on the east coast while I went to graduate school and worked and some what recently moved back and totally regret it.

Some pros and cons I see to living in Southern California are:

pros:
- Very beautiful natural landscapes, etc
- A lot of diversity, you can get pretty much any food you want in Los Angeles.
- The people are generally pretty "chill", they don't get in your business etc.

cons:
- The cities are butt ugly. Its concrete from San Diego to Ventura with the same ugly architecture repeated again and again.
- Housing is far too expensive.
- High taxes
- And now...the job market is horrible.

What about you?

 
Old 11-15-2008, 05:51 PM
hsw
 
2,066 posts, read 4,173,805 times
Reputation: 1353
Am rather familiar w/SiliconValley, LA, Chicago, NYC....and most of US' major urban regions...from living in NYC, SF and LA....and extensive business travel over yrs

Only place I'd move if CA didn't exist is Chicago....much lower state income taxes; superb QOL; houses are about same cost in desirable NorthShore suburbs vs desirable SiliconValley suburbs....much better (academically competent and relatively safe) public schools in NorthShore's Winnetka vs anywhere in CA

But doubt Chic (much like LA) will ever have the power of SiliconValley's economy in continually attracting world's smartest kids to pursue their careers...

LA will always be one of world's most favorite wkend playgrounds (after people have made a few bucks somewhere), but a less desirable place for one to build a career

Suspect regional economies will continue to be determined by region's ability to attract IQ and industrious creativity...and to spur wealth creation....would observe that Boston has a decent engineering school in MIT and a good undergrad college in Harvard, but has a puny tech economy and a rather underwhelming hedge fund industry vs SF/SiliconValley

Many places w/low COL have a low QOL and near-zero ability to attract smart people and to generate wealth....kinda penny-wise, pound-foolish to overly fixate on taxes and COL

CA and NYC will always have US' highest taxes and COL: no surprise....but am more astonished that desirable suburbs of allegedly cheap, low-tax Dallas (e.g., HighlandPark) are no cheaper than elite SiliconValley suburbs like Woodside....yet HP suffers awful weather and topography...and few really smart people....
 
Old 11-15-2008, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,266,865 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
But doubt Chic (much like LA) will ever have the power of SiliconValley's economy in continually attracting world's smartest kids to pursue their careers...
I haven't noticed a big desire among kids to pursue their careers in Silicon Valley. I went to one of the best schools for computer science/engineering (on the east coast) and very few I knew wanted to move to California. California doesn't have the sort of attraction that Californians seem to think it does.... East Coasters more often than not mock the state...

The bay area is good at using its local resources (Berkeley, Stanford) though. That has little to do with the state policies which are bad for business, but rather the culture that exists in the universities.

Anyhow, what data are you using for your claims? As far as I can tell a number of areas have been successful lately in getting new latent to the area. Moving to the bay area and living in a shack isn't particularly appealing option for someone. People are largely moving for employment in company X than moving to be in the bay area itself.
 
Old 11-15-2008, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
9,651 posts, read 6,860,239 times
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I'm not leaving California, I left. A couple of months ago I moved to Oklahoma. Cost of living is less than half. The people are wonderful. I have a house and my yard would be two houses anywhere in socal'

I'm retired on a fixed income so my circumstances are somewhat different, but if I wasn't I would be planning my escape. I'm a third generation cali native, and grew up in socal, and can't find it anymore. Between crowding, illegals, traffic, cost of housing, gangs and the general uptight feeling I saw it isn't my socal anymore.

Here I also have nice clean air to breath. That is something I don't ever remember enjoying unless we went on vacation up the mountains.

Given that there is both white flight and black flight and that the net population is dropping, it isn't the socal that many remembered anymore.
 
Old 11-16-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: LB/OC for now...
5,112 posts, read 11,565,463 times
Reputation: 1774
Moving out to buy a house as soon as my wife gets a job she can transfer
 
Old 11-16-2008, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,266,865 times
Reputation: 592
Speaking of which, I find the arguments that California is good because all the talent here etc etc a bit odd (Such as the views of hws above). Even if true, in a way who cares? If you don't run a business and are just looking for a decent job much of this doesn't matter to you directly.

If you can find a good job in city XYZ outside of California that pays a similar wage yet the cost of living is much less why stay in California?
 
Old 11-16-2008, 09:39 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,507,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I haven't noticed a big desire among kids to pursue their careers in Silicon Valley. I went to one of the best schools for computer science/engineering (on the east coast) and very few I knew wanted to move to California. California doesn't have the sort of attraction that Californians seem to think it does.... East Coasters more often than not mock the state...
I've lived on both coasts and east coasters always mock California and probably always will. I don't think it means anything more than coastal rivalry.

I lived in SF for a couple of years and spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. Just wondering if you've actually spent much time there and gotten to know the community because it's pretty amazing. You do meet people who've literally come there from all over the world.

And if you were an entrepreneur, it is by far and away the best place to raise money for new ideas. I actually met a group of Silicon Valley millionaires who's sole purpose was to fund businesses that even the venture capitalists wouldn't touch. They met every month to figure out what high risk businesses they were going to fund ... they were an amazing group of people.

To me, it was this kind of thing that made Silicon Valley so special. Yeah, people are put off by the expense but, it's the culture of the place that makes it so remarkable.
 
Old 11-16-2008, 09:50 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,507,234 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
cons:
- The cities are butt ugly. Its concrete from San Diego to Ventura with the same ugly architecture repeated again and again.
- Housing is far too expensive.
- High taxes
- And now...the job market is horrible.

What about you?
Can't argue with you about SoCal being more ugly. My husband grew up in SoCal and even he would agree with you. He's always wanted to move to the Central Coast and now we're here.

As far as the job market being horrible, we were able to avoid that during this recession thanks to the California community college system where I basically was able to go to nursing school for free so ... I'm actually grateful to the state for giving me that opportunity.

Housing expense? Yeah, that's still a problem. But I wonder how happy you would be if you lived in some of these cheap places. I've done it out in the desert and I've also lived in cheap places like Texas and North Carolina. Of course, it works for a lot of other people but to me, those places are definitely cheap for a reason. Ugh ... I don't care how cheap it is I just wouldn't want to go back there.
 
Old 11-16-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Baywood Park
1,634 posts, read 4,117,580 times
Reputation: 621
If I leave, which I'm considering. It won't be until I retire, which is quite a few years away.
 
Old 11-16-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,266,865 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
I've lived on both coasts and east coasters always mock California and probably always will. I don't think it means anything more than coastal rivalry.
My point in mentioning this is that Californians like to think everyone wants to live in California. I hear it all the time. But its simply not true and anybody that has lived outside of California for a decent amount of time knows it.

There is certainly a coastal rivalry. But I never heard an east coaster imply that everyone wants to move to the east coast. Yet, I hear this all the time from people here, even some in my family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
I lived in SF for a couple of years and spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. Just wondering if you've actually spent much time there and gotten to know the community because it's pretty amazing. You do meet people who've literally come there from all over the world.
Its like this at any high ranking university, really. The bay area (or California in general) is just more entrepreneurial than some other areas with good universities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
And if you were an entrepreneur, it is by far and away the best place to raise money for new ideas. I actually met a group of Silicon Valley millionaires who's sole purpose was to fund businesses that even the venture capitalists wouldn't touch.
Its one of the best places to raise money for particular ideas, by no means is it the best place to raise funds in general. Regardless, a lot of start-ups occurring in the area because of this funding. But its really a double edged sword. I would never start a business funded by VC or angels.

Regardless for those that aren't trying to start a tech business Silicon Valley isn't so hot. There are a number of areas with growing tech industries that have a bunch cheaper cost of living. Even if you like the bay area there is only so many sacrifices you are going to make to live there before you throw in the towel.

Anyhow, I really don't know what will happen with California. I'm not very hopefully but it can go either way. The state needs a major shake up in its state government, but that is unlikely to happen so long has the bay area has its way. Perhaps the state just needs to be divided.

Personally, that is something I'm sick of. Northern lefties pushing bad fiscal policy.
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