More people leaving the state than entering this year (Fresno: new house, job market)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Fresno Facts,thanks for the input. I hate cigarette smoke too. We're going to check out a lot of places. I'll always be a Californian at heart (I even have California poppies tattooed on my ankle) but we're looking for new experiences. Maybe NC, KY or TN. Who knows. Maybe we won't go anywhere, but its fun to look. Other than drought, what else did you notice about the hill country, pros & cons?
Further, companies will hire them to work dirt cheap making it hard for you to get a good paying job, or maybe a job at all. And so on and so on. It might not be a big deal if they were in small numbers. But CA has, what, 10 million alone?
It's more like 2 million in California, 10 million nationwide. Less with the bad economy right now.
For California it really comes down to agriculture. We feed the world more than any other state. Do you want a career picking lettuce? I don't.
All of the border states have the same problems and basically have the same percentage of Hispanic population that we do ... about 30-35 percent.
What jobs are illegals/immigrants taking that you cannot get? Manual Labor like Farming and Car Washing? Are you really going to do that for minimum wage? I don't think so.
There are more immigrants here in California than nashville and there are plenty of teachers that have no problems teaching them and doing their job. Most if not all schools here have ESL also. Can you give me some examples how they are driving up the cost of living?
You've just (inadvertantly?) named some examples. Like all the state-provided services like schools, police, hospitals, etc etc. Who do you think pays for those things? Take schools again, add 50% to the student population without their share of revenue and the rest of us are stuck with the cost. Now your taxes go up and you have less money to go around. But the govt can only raise tazes so much before people cry foul. Soon the schools are over budget and teachers get laid off. Now you've got teachers out of work and students with overcrowded classes and low funding which degrades their quality of education. Next thing you know, tax dollars are short everywhere so some police get laid off, then crime rises. Then there's not enough left to keep up with the highway infastructure and that all goes to hell. And so on.
Jobs, you think all they do is wash cars? How about lawn care, maid services, etc? Both businesses which I have friends that own local businesses of. Or how about construction? That would normally be a good paying job for a blue collar worker. Or what of the thousands of jobs in the 4 largest meat packing plants in the nation? The one in Iowa just got busted for hiring something like 700 illegals. Those are jobs that would pay taxpayers much more than the illegals.
These are just a couple examples. C'mon man this is simple economics. It's easy to say "I'll just go about my business", but if your business is living there and using the services and paying taxes, you are affected. I am not one to point a finger at a whole group of people, because we are all people, after all. I've got an uncle who's an immigrant. But he came in the front door, got his legal citizenship, did it the right way.
This is a real issue, and like I said, just a few people isn't the same burden different from millions and millions. The sheer size of it costs the rest of us in money, jobs, public services, quality of life.
This is probably an oversimplification, but it seems to me that many people feel entitled to cheap meat and produce. Companies hire cheap labor for a reason. And when they can't, they pass the added costs on to consumers, who then bleat about the high cost of food. There are complaints about the "immigrant problem" and also complaints when things cost more than people want to pay (or feel they should have to pay). I'm not sure we can have it both ways.
Yes, stuff is expensive, but I doubt any of us are really paying the full cost of anything, especially if you factor in costs to the environment for the extraction and processing of raw materials and the pollution that goes along with it. Flesh and dairy, too, should be expensive because they are so pollutive, but subsidies, abuse, and cheap labor (even when done by citizens) keep the costs of these things low.
Adjusting people's expectations about what things cost and reducing the American sense of entitlement would probably be helpful while addressing this complicated issue.
I cannot believe every topic about the demise of California comes down to illegal immigration.
Seriously people, I really think those who constantly bring up immigration as a major issue are just looking to blame it on something besides themselves.
Many states have the same problem, including Colorado where many people are "fleeing" to....take a visit to Greeley, Co.
You've just (inadvertantly?) named some examples. Like all the state-provided services like schools, police, hospitals, etc etc. Who do you think pays for those things? Take schools again, add 50% to the student population without their share of revenue and the rest of us are stuck with the cost. Now your taxes go up and you have less money to go around. But the govt can only raise tazes so much before people cry foul. Soon the schools are over budget and teachers get laid off. Now you've got teachers out of work and students with overcrowded classes and low funding which degrades their quality of education. Next thing you know, tax dollars are short everywhere so some police get laid off, then crime rises. Then there's not enough left to keep up with the highway infastructure and that all goes to hell. And so on.
Jobs, you think all they do is wash cars? How about lawn care, maid services, etc? Both businesses which I have friends that own local businesses of. Or how about construction? That would normally be a good paying job for a blue collar worker. Or what of the thousands of jobs in the 4 largest meat packing plants in the nation? The one in Iowa just got busted for hiring something like 700 illegals. Those are jobs that would pay taxpayers much more than the illegals.
These are just a couple examples. C'mon man this is simple economics. It's easy to say "I'll just go about my business", but if your business is living there and using the services and paying taxes, you are affected. I am not one to point a finger at a whole group of people, because we are all people, after all. I've got an uncle who's an immigrant. But he came in the front door, got his legal citizenship, did it the right way.
This is a real issue, and like I said, just a few people isn't the same burden different from millions and millions. The sheer size of it costs the rest of us in money, jobs, public services, quality of life.
Taxes go up? You act like taxes being raised are all because of the "illegals". They impact such a small portion you don't even feel it in your wallet. You blame the illegals but what about those hiring them? Construction? The jobs they give those types are the construction jobs that require minimum skill that most people would not do unless desperate.
I don't see any illegals working on the bay bridge. Mowing lawns? Packing meat? Those are low paying assembly line jobs that pay as much as mcdonalds. Maybe if they paid more then they could get Americans working there but this is a capitalist country we are to blame. Imagine how much strawberries would cost if they were paying Americans 20 an hour to pick them. Would you complain?
Just move on folks...the illegal immigration issue is not going to be fixed any time soon.
Those who moved here from out of state will see every Mexican as an illegal and blame it on them for having to leave, when in fact 7/10 Mexicans here in CA are legal and immigration to many natives is not a big deal.
This is not a winnable argument, illegals should not be here, they are and it is not that big of a deal to the budget IMO.
People leaving is great news! It's all about supply and demand... and with more people leaving, the supply of labor would drop while the demand for goods required to be shipped into other States would increase. California is a major exporter of goods and imports (from global trade) into other States.
So, those who remain get cheaper houses, less crowded freeways, and the potential for higher wages.
So, yes, leave the State, so the labor pool can firm up, and the housing costs fall down.
Thanks Sheri for all your digging of the facts. Housing prices falling has considerably slowed down the out-migration. But, poor economy will also contribute to additional outflows. Hopefully, with more people leaving because of economy instead of housing, the labor market will also start to firm up.
Please leave and don't come back... we need the room for the hard working legal immigrants coming in that will be taking your jobs as scientists, engineers, researchers, doctors, that are productive members of society. After all, other Countries are producing more skilled workers in these fields than we are. What more welcoming place for them to go than the Golden State. The rest of the States can have the folks that want the "easy" living.
California, and Californians in general have to keep on top of their games (educate, retrain, and innovate)... because we're at the forefront of global competition and innovation. If you don't want to improve and just want the easy life, then go to someplace that Californians haven't gone to. Because once Californians go somewhere, they'll want to innovate and make improvements... great example is how much GDP growth the Western States outside of California has grown because of large Californian in-migrations. If you want sleepy town... don't tell people where your going.
those who remain get cheaper houses, less crowded freeways, and the potential for higher wages.
So, yes, leave the State, so the labor pool can firm up, and the housing costs fall down.
The population of California is still increasing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $53,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
