This is real! (renting, insurance, buying)

[jc76]

After re-reading my original post I felt compelled to say I sounded kinda like a Rush Limbaugh (and I don't like him much). I guess there are some who were brought up with little or no teachings of right and wrong, but I think deep down we ALL know right from wrong. Rehabilitation??? For some maybe, I think it should be done by evaluating each case...but then there goes more taxpayer money. I don't know, it's a mess.

[phloxy]

Taxpayer money should be better and more effectively applied before crimes are committed, bettering things that the majority likely supports: quality education, ending child and spousal abuse, preventing drug use and abuse, providing health and mental health care, making trade school and higher education affordable and available for those who desire it.

There was an interesting blog post today at Daily Kos talking about just this issue.

FWIW, we all probably do know right from wrong, yet most of us still have probably used company supplies for personal use, called in sick to work when we weren't sick, broken the law by speeding, told a little white lie to protect to protect our self-interest. We justify these things in various ways, but they're different in degree not kind.

[bayarea-girl]

phloxy, in jail you have a whole mixture of people serving time. All nor the majority of people serving time right now in today's day and age have been deliberately sentenced because of false imprisonment or because of racism. If we were in the 80's maybe I might have a different spin on things. Sure there are some people that are in jail right now that don't belong there but times are significantly different than the 80's. For one there is DNA, and better forensic technics being used today, and there are video cameras everywhere, as well as a diversity of police.

"Time and time again the death penalty has been proven to not work." If the states actually executed the prisoners and if people who committed crimes such as a murder automatically got the death penalty then you might see a different reaction. In most states if someone commits a murder if they accept a plea they never have to do the entire time and be able to go out into the world. In other countries they don't have the time or energy to back and forth with a judge and attorneys. If you commit a crime and something as serious as death, well you gonna die (period).

As for your "rehabilitated" friend good luck with your friendship. Don't be surprised if he stops taking his meds and or gets into an arguement with you or some one else and snaps and kills people. Don't be surprised.

buckeyenative01, no you did not say they should live in resorts and I didn't say you did (you might as well have said it though). Also, less offenders should be sent to the same jail so that there is an understanding that jail is not a place they should want to ever return to. Also, no one said to imprison them and toss away the key. But again, there should be significant lessons learned of ones actions and consequences resulting from poor decisions and if it turns out that you have to do the time it shouldn't have sugar on top.

[bayarea-girl]

phloxy, ok for real are you seriously trying to compare criminal activity with sick time and office supplies? That is CRAZY! If CA is still set to release prisoners in the thousands I'll just tell them to find you so that they can live next door to you.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by bayarea-girl

All nor the majority of people serving time right now in today's day and age have been deliberately sentenced because of false imprisonment or because of racism.

Could you rephrase that? Are you saying that most prisoners are there because of false imprisonment and racism?

Say what??? That's just crazy!!!

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by phloxy

Taxpayer money should be better and more effectively applied before crimes are committed, bettering things that the majority likely supports: quality education, ending child and spousal abuse, preventing drug use and abuse, providing health and mental health care, making trade school and higher education affordable and available for those who desire it.

There was an interesting blog post today at Daily Kos talking about just this issue.

FWIW, we all probably do know right from wrong, yet most of us still have probably used company supplies for personal use, called in sick to work when we weren't sick, broken the law by speeding, told a little white lie to protect to protect our self-interest. We justify these things in various ways, but they're different in degree not kind.

tax money does go for schools, but there are too many families who have never encouraged their kids to do well or go to school.

In a perfect world everything you are saying is fine, but we do not live in a perfect world. How would you use tax money to stop family abuse, drugs, crime ridden neighborhoods. I can remember back in the 50s when nice project housing was being built in Los Angeles for those that could not afford anything else. Those apartments were trashed in just a few years. Or school classes were cut from the 32 students to about 28, didn't help. Summer school was available to all kids, the under acheivers as they are now called didn't attend..

Nita

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by nmnita

tax money does go for schools, but there are too many families who have never encouraged their kids to do well or go to school.

In a perfect world everything you are saying is fine, but we do not live in a perfect world. How would you use tax money to stop family abuse, drugs, crime ridden neighborhoods. I can remember back in the 50s when nice project housing was being built in Los Angeles for those that could not afford anything else. Those apartments were trashed in just a few years. Or school classes were cut from the 32 students to about 28, didn't help. Summer school was available to all kids, the under acheivers as they are now called didn't attend..

You are expecting too much of government. Encouraging kids to do well in school is the responsibility of parents, not of the government. Stopping family abuse etc. is the responsibility of the citizens, not of the government. Government can't step in and feed you, clothe you, wipe your ass. That is the responsibility of parents.

As long as we rely on the government to provide these things we will have a defective society. This is not a government responsibility. This is YOUR responsibility.

If you can't handle the responsibility then don't have children.

[bayarea-girl]

Lovehound, I think you are coming in at the very end of this post and didn't read threw the whole post. phloxy actually wrote that people are in jail because of racism and what I am saying is that everyone in jail is NOT in jail because of racial injustices.

Also, nminta isn't saying that the government should help the kids and provide all of these programs, that was also phloxy saying that. What nminta was simply saying is that programs have been made available to all and life isn't perfect....

So if you read the whole post it should be a bit clearer.

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by JustPassinThru

During the Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) panic of the eighties, a relative of mine was one of nearly 4 dozen mothers, fathers, grandmothers, and grandfathers who were put on trial for non-existent crimes. My relative spent four years in Folsom before the judgement was overturned. (There were no tortured or murdered children, just coerced testimony from scared kids.) One grandmother died in prison, another young man spent 20 years behind bars before he was released.

As a result of this case, new laws were written to specify how minors are to be interrogated. But this came too late for the dozens of lives that were ruined by an overzealous D.A.

It should be recognized that everyone behind bars may not be guilty, or not guilty of a heinous crime. If we, as a nation, can match our desire for justice with an equivalent amount of compassion, I think we'll be alright.

Thank you for sharing your experience here. I am sorry for the impact it must have had on you. I remember those cases well and also the truth that finally came to light years later, after individual lives and families had been unjustly imprisoned and destroyed.
When I was younger, I never would have believed that there were very many innocents in prison. Now that I am older and more experienced in the realities of the ways of people, I believe. And I wonder. Just how many innocents are locked up through events like the 80's abuse panic you mentioned or over zealous prosecution by ambitious DA's or others in the "justice" system. Not to mention misinterpretation of evidence. Our science may have advanced, but our drive to prosecute and hold someone responsible for the crime, real or perceived, often snowballs over the quest for the truth.
There are many abuses of the protections written into the justice system. It looks just on paper, but the reality is so very different, especially now. Kinda scary, really. And, how about how much it costs to defend yourself?! Justice should not be bought by the rich and lost to the poor!

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

You are expecting too much of government. Encouraging kids to do well in school is the responsibility of parents, not of the government. Stopping family abuse etc. is the responsibility of the citizens, not of the government. Government can't step in and feed you, clothe you, wipe your ass. That is the responsibility of parents.

As long as we rely on the government to provide these things we will have a defective society. This is not a government responsibility. This is YOUR responsibility.

If you can't handle the responsibility then don't have children.

I guess I worded that wrong, You are right, of course it is not the governments resposibility: I t is Phloxy who thinks it is the governments resposibility and we should give our tax $$S to agencies that will solve the problems of society. These problems have always been there and will always be there. I agree with you 100%..

Years ago I taught an adult education class: cooking on a limited budget. It was geared to those who either were on welfare or very low income. After 2 semesters I gave it up. I was wasting everyones money and my time. 90% of those in the class could not be bothered. They were quite happy to buy junk food and prepared food for their familes while getting Wick and food stamps. None of them cared about making healthy chicken soup for pennies or buying quality day old bread instead of cheap sandwhich white bread..they couldn't crasp why fried food wasn't good for them or how to teach the kids to eat something other than chips after school..

Nita