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Old 03-31-2009, 12:06 PM
 
14,344 posts, read 12,191,837 times
Reputation: 10255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Charles_ View Post
The city of San Diego is teetering on bankruptcy - could happen at any time.
America's Finest City of the 1980s is something completely different right now.
Yeah, San Diego really is a poster child for pension benefits run amok. Around 7 or 8 years ago, we got an improvement in pension benefits based on the highest one year of salary instead of an average of the highest 3 years. But employees had to kick their share into the pension fund to get that benefit.

It sounds like San Diego just went ahead and provided the improved benefits without even putting more money in the fund. NUTS!!!
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Northern California
3,477 posts, read 9,061,076 times
Reputation: 1474
Go to The CalPERS $100,000 Pension Club to see what kind of pensions are valued public employees are making. One guy in southern California is collectiong a pension of $$half a million a year$$. Go to the homepage at CALIFORNIA PENSION REFORM for interesting articles.

Also check out www.pensiontsunami.com for more info.

City, county and the state governments are spending about 75% of their budget for employees and their pension and health care. That doesn't leave much money leftover for new school books, filling pot holes or helping the poor, sick and elderly.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,001 posts, read 16,222,012 times
Reputation: 16938
Quote:
Originally Posted by humboldtrat View Post
Go to The CalPERS $100,000 Pension Club to see what kind of pensions are valued public employees are making. One guy in southern California is collectiong a pension of $$half a million a year$$. Go to the homepage at CALIFORNIA PENSION REFORM for interesting articles.

Also check out Pension Tsunami for more info.

City, county and the state governments are spending about 75% of their budget for employees and their pension and health care. That doesn't leave much money leftover for new school books, filling pot holes or helping the poor, sick and elderly.
Oh, bother. Here we go again. It's not the public employees themselves who have bumped up the wages and retirements. Doing so is what keeps the labor unions collecting untold millions in dues, which are based upon a percent of salary. The unions, in turm, spend millions of their ill-gotten gains lobbying and "rewarding" legislators in the Democratic Party who hold the reins of power and the two factions become self-aggrandizing, self-promoting and mutually supportive.

Thank Jerry Brown who, as Governor, gave the unions exclusive bargaining and dues-collecting authority. Pete Wilson overturned it and Gray Davis reinstated it.

While state employees may reep the benefits of the retirement formulae, the Legislature has given away the farm.

By the way, my wife and I are both retirees and it's taken Social Security to round out a living income.

As for services to the citizens waning, those same citizens can thank themselves for having created mandated, categorical spending requirements through the initiative system. They've effectively tied government's hands when it comes to budgeting and shifting funds to meet emerging needs.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 06-12-2009 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Apple Valley Calif
7,376 posts, read 11,798,804 times
Reputation: 4974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
At least a dozen or more from my High School Class went into law enforcement and all but 2 retired in their early 40's with pensions.
None of this would be relevant if there was parity between public servant positions and private industries... these isn't and that's why the public is becoming more out spoken.
This is a perfect example of people talking with nothing but false rumors to base their arguements on....
Minimum retirement age for law enforcement officers is 50...! If your friends truely retired in their early fourties, it was due to injuries, and they had to find another job, because they are paid a pitance for medical retirement.
If a law enforcement officer retired at 40, which is an impossibility, they would make about 40% of their wage. Try living on that. If it was a medical retirement, it would be far less than 40%.
If an officer starts work at 20 and retires at 50, they will recieve anywhere form 60 to 90 %, after 30 years.
A lot of the blame for super high pensions can be laid at the feet of our govenor from the 80's, when the dotcom boom was flooding the state with money. They thought the money was going to go on forever...
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:21 PM
Status: ""Mony Mony " was the "B" side." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Eureka CA
3,750 posts, read 4,779,665 times
Reputation: 3659
I love how the anti-State worker crowd always uses the example of the 30-year retiree. Most State workers leave at well under 30 years because they can do better elsewhere. I'm leaving this Fall after ten years and if you think State employment is so great go ahead and apply for my job. You're welcome to it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:03 PM
 
14,048 posts, read 25,894,179 times
Reputation: 8195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn2390 View Post
This is a perfect example of people talking with nothing but false rumors to base their arguements on....
Minimum retirement age for law enforcement officers is 50...! If your friends truely retired in their early fourties, it was due to injuries, and they had to find another job, because they are paid a pitance for medical retirement.
If a law enforcement officer retired at 40, which is an impossibility, they would make about 40% of their wage. Try living on that. If it was a medical retirement, it would be far less than 40%.
If an officer starts work at 20 and retires at 50, they will recieve anywhere form 60 to 90 %, after 30 years.
A lot of the blame for super high pensions can be laid at the feet of our govenor from the 80's, when the dotcom boom was flooding the state with money. They thought the money was going to go on forever...
Had lunch with one of them yesterday... retired from motors with 23 years... he started very young and was assigned undercover work after getting his Admin of Justice from the local JC

He said life is good... at 42 he became engaged to a women 10 years his junior... first marriage for both... they have 2 children and he's the doting father while Mom continues working as a Dental Hygienist... I never asked if he went out on Medical... but I will next time I see him... other than that he has a triplex he used to live in and now rents out all 3 units...

Another friend married a retired officer and they moved to Montana and started a family... he said 20 years was enough and glad to be living a life far removed the the city streets of Oakland.

None of the retired officers I mentioned previously are over 50... most were in their early to mid 40's when they left... some went right into the military after high school and then into the department... I believe military service factors into civil service... but I don't know.

I do know it is much different today in terms of benefits... my Uncle was killed in the line of duty as a Deputy Sheriff in 1964 and the only benefit was a 10k life insurance policy... today, his kids would have college funds and the family would have medical... not to mention a pension... he was killed 2 months before his wedding so I will never know...

Not all departments are part of CALPERS... another friend went to work for an agency not part of CALPERS after 20 years with Oakland...

My neighbor that moved to Gardnerville Nevada... somehow was able to earn 3 pensions in his 40 plus years in law enforcement... Maybe proposed caps on what employers can pay employees might someday apply to a ceiling on maximum pension benefits???

I guess it's statistically possible they all went out on disability

***** UPDATE****

I just called him and you are correct... he went out on disability due to a motorcycle injury on duty... he also told me it 90% pension with 30 years... and unused sick pay, comp time and holiday factor into years of service...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 06-12-2009 at 09:29 PM..
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,540 posts, read 14,878,411 times
Reputation: 4625
Well, I know as far as union carpenters who work county or state that they work for 80% of union scale. They do not get union vacation checks either. Having worked on jobs where these carpenters are, I have observed that many of them could not have survived working under a normal contractor.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:42 PM
 
1,892 posts, read 3,625,201 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Had lunch with one of them yesterday... retired from motors with 23 years... he started very young and was assigned undercover work after getting his Admin of Justice from the local JC

He said life is good... at 42 he became engaged to a women 10 years his junior... first marriage for both... they have 2 children and he's the doting father while Mom continues working as a Dental Hygienist... I never asked if he went out on Medical... but I will next time I see him... other than that he has a triplex he used to live in and now rents out all 3 units...

Another friend married a retired officer and they moved to Montana and started a family... he said 20 years was enough and glad to be living a life far removed the the city streets of Oakland.

None of the retired officers I mentioned previously are over 50... most were in their early to mid 40's when they left... some went right into the military after high school and then into the department... I believe military service factors into civil service... but I don't know.

I do know it is much different today in terms of benefits... my Uncle was killed in the line of duty as a Deputy Sheriff in 1964 and the only benefit was a 10k life insurance policy... today, his kids would have college funds and the family would have medical... not to mention a pension... he was killed 2 months before his wedding so I will never know...

Not all departments are part of CALPERS... another friend went to work for an agency not part of CALPERS after 20 years with Oakland...

My neighbor that moved to Gardnerville Nevada... somehow was able to earn 3 pensions in his 40 plus years in law enforcement... Maybe proposed caps on what employers can pay employees might someday apply to a ceiling on maximum pension benefits???

I guess it's statistically possible they all went out on disability

***** UPDATE****

I just called him and you are correct... he went out on disability due to a motorcycle injury on duty... he also told me it 90% pension with 30 years... and unused sick pay, comp time and holiday factor into years of service...
Yeah, cops are at the top of the pension/pay/benefit food chain. I used to work with some narcotic detectives. Some were eligible to retire but kept on working because the job was easy and the money was great. The LA Times' business section had an Article about a 27 year old Burbank detective who was making $125K a year. The guys I worked with had around 20 year experience each.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:43 PM
Status: "mutleys little moral voice... he cant resist" (set 13 days ago)
 
538 posts, read 1,197,864 times
Reputation: 636
L A County has its own retirement association.. and my pension was after 25 years.. you try South Central for 25 years...several officer involved shootings.. sued and sued others a bunch of times.. beat up , stabbed, spit upon, abused,, you'd retire too.. and not worry that you were costing the citizens too much.. I exchanged my body for their safety (gladly)

We possibly have the strongest pension fund in the US.. because of fiscal conservancy that CALPERS didnt exercise.. currently new deputies don't have the same benefits I received as costs skyrocket.. this lessens incentives and reduces the qualified applicants (and standards) that want to come to the department

I lived in crappy areas and crappy houses much of my time in SO CAl.. so I could have enough money to retire and get the heck outta there for another life.. again.. I got paid (well) for living a crappy life down there.. those years cant be replaced.. and the stuff that comes from a lifetime as a policeman is like other hard occupations... shortens ones life and leaves one hurting

My pension goes down every year but Im still very thankful to have one.. I too have been fiscally conservative and live simply without debt.. just in case it all comes apart in Obamaland
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:24 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 4,740,061 times
Reputation: 1651
Not sure why people are getting on the cops. Yeah they have good retirement benefits. But do your really want to do their job? What about their life expectancy of 57 years or so(15 years less than the average male)...what about the fact that 50% of officers pass away within 5 years of retirement(hence the low life expectancy stat).

If you want the real problem with public sector employees.....its those that juice the system. There are many ways to do this....the biggest is with overtime. I know supervisors that purposely create schedules to accomodate employees working the most overtime possible. The grossest example I know of is a LAX(city of Los Angeles) clerical employee with a base pay of just over $40K a year who made over $105K in 2007 due to OT. And the thing was....it was totally unnecessary. But the supervisor stacked 4 employees in a 2 employee job so that this employee could work the 2 days a week that were not covered on both day and swing shift(so 16 hours of OT twice a week).

IMO this is sick and repugnant, but literally there is nothing I can do about it. If I was to go to the general manager of that division and inform of it, they would kick it down to the superivisor under them who would kick the issue down to the Management Analyst in charge of that section who would do nothing about it because he doesn't want his overtime allotment messed with. And the thing is, the GM really should just cut the OT hours for that section, but as the GM is likely a political appointment and doesn't give a rats %$@*, there is really nothing anyones gonna do about it.

At least the mayor now in Los Angeles has cut all overtime to civilian employees. Unfortunately this hurts operations like the one I'm in where we don't have enough people to cover our 24/7 public safety office. We will get by, and generally people here are just happy to have reasonable jobs(nothing extravegant....no one here makes $100K except the division head and the three managerial employees who oversee about 80 employees each as well as vital public safety functions. But somethings gonna give at some point....maybe misidentified people, maybe someones car doesn't get entered as stolen, maybe someone picked up on a warrant will be let go.

I kinda wish people could see where I work....there was only marginal OT abuse going on and it was only 3 employees....and that was going to get shut down this month no matter what because the new management employee was not having any of it. The rest of this division....people do a very good job at critical semi skilled and skilled jobs that are not so easy to do. Most of them make a top pay scale of $42K or $55K depending on their jobs, which can be stressful and in most cases require that they make no mistakes. As to retirement....most retire at 25-35 years of service and 55-65 years of age.

FWIW, retirement at 55 years and 30 years of service for our jobs is 63% of highest year salary(2.1 per year multiplier). And no Social Security unless they worked private industry before or after and even that is capped rather low due to collecting the retirement.
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