U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 02-22-2008, 02:38 PM
 
28 posts, read 55,523 times
Reputation: 13

Advertisements

cobmw,
Ohio is broke too. Foreclosure percent is enormous. Unless you have a college degree, you are working in a factory or fast food. As far as the textbooks teaching about homosexuality, I think they should. It is a fact of life. Maybe it will lesson the hate. My uncle is a gay man and I love him. I may not agree with his lifestyle, but I love him. Nobody is perfect. Nobody. It's sad that their is so much hate against gay people. I don't believe that God wants anyone to hate another person. Afterall, He loves those that do evil. I'm glad our kids will learn about global warming. Most Ohioans know nothing about it and don't care whether they trash the earth.

I know that I was taught in school about evolution. My parents taught me about creation. Do you think I believed the school or my parents? My parents; and I still believe that God created the earth. Just because someone is telling my child something doesn't mean they will believe it, especially if I parent my child and teach them what I believe to be right.
For the record, we are recycling, 'green' vegetarians, so I think we fit in much better in CA than we do here in the Midwest.
I hope that you are able to check your bitterness wherever you are. Life is too short.

take care!

 
Old 02-23-2008, 04:13 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,629,951 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Another acquittance is an avid sportsman... he has 3 boats and all of them have meticulously maintained 2 stroke motors that are now banned at his favorite fishing lakes. It started with the MTBE additive CA forced into the fuel supply.
This is a classic misrepresentation and omission of facts for the sake of California bashing. Sure California government does screw up ... in this case the fault lies with BIG OIL.

MTBE completely wiped out the ENTIRE water supply for the city Santa Monica so .... that's why they had to ban boats on the reservoirs. NOT because they were arbitrarily trying to victimize boat owners.

Unless you don't want ANY water to drink ... they had to do this in order to save the public water supply. Or ... would it be better to end up like the city of Santa Monica and have no water supply at all?

MTBE was NOT the state of California's fault. It was the OIL COMPANIES' fault for choosing that additive to begin with ... it had nothing to do with how boat owners maintained their boats and everything to do with the crappy gasoline that was in them.

So if you want to blame somebody for MTBE ... blame Big Oil. It was THEIR IDEA to use this additive without testing it first ... which how they contaminated so many local water supplies.

How did all of this start? Remember when California was, at one point, pushing electric cars? Well ... obviously Big Oil didn't want that because they'd lose a ton of money. So they pushed "cleaner burning" fuel. The state agreed ... and that's how the MTBE disaster was born.

As for the statement that MTBE was forced into the fuel supply ... Keep in mind that the state didn't choose MTBE, that was Big Oil's choice. There were other alternatives that they could have used but, this was the most profitable.

I guess you can blame the state for pushing electric cars to begin with. At one time it was considered a nutty idea. But now with hybrids, etc. ... electric cars are actually looking like a great idea with sky high gas prices.

So ... before people go off about something allegedly bad that California government did ... at least try to do some homework first. You're probably not getting the full story.

Last edited by sheri257; 02-23-2008 at 04:37 AM..
 
Old 02-23-2008, 09:10 AM
 
566 posts, read 1,291,719 times
Reputation: 307
Big oil, big greedy oil, big dirty oil, big destroying the planet oil.

How come we never hear big government mentioned as a source of evil? They would get my vote. Especially California government that is run by special interest groups like the teachers union (#1 campaign contributor in CA) and the lawyers (#2 campaign contributor). No wonder why the CA school system is among the worst in the world. And why does the CA legislature pass over 1000 new laws each year? Those lawyers want more reasons to file law suits. And you worry about big oil.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,355 posts, read 3,927,321 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
So if you want to blame somebody for MTBE ... blame Big Oil. It was THEIR IDEA to use this additive without testing it first ... which how they contaminated so many local water supplies.
MTBE was added because of federal clean air requirements to add an oxygenate to gasoline to make it burn cleaner. "Big Oil" used MTBE because ethanol was not as readily available then. Big Government had approved the use of MTBE.

Maybe you have a point though... I guess Big Government should have ignored Big Oil and mandated that everyone own electric cars. This in spite of the fact that the infrastructure and technology are not ready now, let alone in the 90s.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 01:50 PM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,413,171 times
Reputation: 8370
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
How did all of this start? Remember when California was, at one point, pushing electric cars? Well ... obviously Big Oil didn't want that because they'd lose a ton of money. So they pushed "cleaner burning" fuel. The state agreed ... and that's how the MTBE disaster was born.
I'm glad that we agree... just because a business wants to do something doesn't mean our elected officials have to agree. Many states did not agree and never had to deal with the aftermath of MTBE

On two occasions, I took the day off from work and traveled to speak in Sacramento against MTBE... if my legislature only would have listened

My original post consisted of anecdotal evidence of why friends and neighbors have left California... people still have choices... it is not for me to say that the ban on 2 stroke motors shouldn't have been reason enough for my neighbor to leave or another was so upset when he was turned in to the police for having a fire in his fireplace on Christmas 2006...

My family has a 16 foot boat with a 35hp outboard that my uncle bought new in 1958. Every year we would take it out on Labor Day at Lake Tahoe. One Afternoon a year we would use 6 gallons of fuel tank and now our boat is banned because "I" was destroying the environment? Funny how it is not an issue in most other states? My 35hp boat is banned and someone with 300 hp 6 to 10 gallon Per Hour motor is OK?

I feel that sometimes many California people just get tired of being the "Guinea pig" for the nation.

My hobby of restoring antique cars has me looking at other states... California no longer allows the sale of the Lacquer and Enamel Paint needed for me to paint... I personally know Auto Restorer's that have left the Bay Area and moved to neighboring States because of this and are very happy about their decisions.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 02-23-2008 at 02:28 PM.. Reason: Added Restoring Antique Autos to Post
 
Old 02-23-2008, 02:41 PM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,413,171 times
Reputation: 8370
Default Remember when you had to use plastic grocery bags to save a tree?

We sure have some strange regulations in CA and I have a hard time explaining it to friends that live in other states.

There was a time when all grocery bags were made of brown craft paper... then, all of a sudden anyone with a paper bag was responsible for killing trees... so we all switched to plastic...

Well, we know that plastic started to clog the landfills and then the push was back to paper because it can easily be recycled... go figure

How about the mandate to use fluorescent bulbs??? Doesn't anyone know that fluorescent bulbs contain mercury and used bulbs are classified as hazardous waste and it is against the law to dispose of fluorescents in landfill trash?

I really wonder who is running this state sometimes and making these bizarre rules and regs?

Government mandates poison MTBE gasoline, poison mercury containing flouresents bulbs... and now we have a proposed tax on CO2 emmisions... CO2 is what we as humans exhale and is necessary for all plant life...

Someone... somewhere... is making money here... When in doubt... Follow the Money!
 
Old 02-23-2008, 06:29 PM
 
566 posts, read 1,291,719 times
Reputation: 307
Have you read the stories about people who have had accidents with the new florescent bulbs? Break one on a carpet and you are in a heck of a fix. You must not vacuum the residue or you'll put mercury into the air. At this point the only solution is to call a hazardous waste team an pay $1000-$2000 to have them do a clean up. And we will all be forced by law to switch to florescents starting in four years when the 100 watt incadescent bulb can no longer be sold in the US. Why do people let government pull these stunts? Can't wait to hear the hollering when the S@#t hits the fan on this one.
 
Old 02-24-2008, 11:39 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,629,951 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobmw View Post
And you worry about big oil.
Yeah ... silly me.

Those sky high gas prices have only spiked inflation and been a MAJOR cause of the economy going into recession but ...

Let's go ahead and defend the oil companies. Afterall ... they've done so much for the average citizen and the country in general.


Last edited by sheri257; 02-24-2008 at 12:08 PM..
 
Old 02-24-2008, 11:47 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,629,951 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
MTBE was added because of federal clean air requirements to add an oxygenate to gasoline to make it burn cleaner. "Big Oil" used MTBE because ethanol was not as readily available then. Big Government had approved the use of MTBE.
As usual ... you guys are missing a big part of the picture. California wanted to go further than the fed requirements by pushing the electric car. "Cleaner" burning fuel that exceeded the fed requirements was actually a compromise proposed by the oil companies in lieu of the electric car mandate which, eventually the state removed as part of the compromise.

As far as ethanol not being readily available ... that's ridiculous. Ethanol had been around for years ... but Big Oil didn't want to give all of that money to ADM and the other companies that were profiting from it. They wanted their OWN additive that THEY and they alone could profit from ...

Now ... if you want to find fault with the state ... blame them for compromising too much with the oil companies. Of course, today ... the electric car looks pretty smart in hindsight but, at the time, it was considered a nutty idea ... which is probably why they compromised so much.

But it's not like the State of California suddenly woke up one day and said: "Let's screw the average boat owner with more nutty environmental regulations!"

That's not what happened.

Last edited by sheri257; 02-24-2008 at 12:09 PM..
 
Old 02-24-2008, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,355 posts, read 3,927,321 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
As usual ... you guys are missing a big part of the picture. California wanted to go further than the fed requirements by pushing the electric car. "Cleaner" burning fuel that exceeded the fed requirements was actually a compromise proposed by the oil companies in lieu of the electric car mandate which, eventually the state removed as part of the compromise.

As far as ethanol not being readily available ... that's ridiculous. Ethanol had been around for years ... but Big Oil didn't want to give all of that money to ADM and the other companies that were profiting from it. They wanted their OWN additive that THEY and they alone could profit from ...

Now ... if you want to find fault with the state ... blame them for compromising too much with the oil companies. Of course, today ... the electric car looks pretty smart in hindsight but, at the time, it was considered a nutty idea ... which is probably why they compromised so much.

But it's not like the State of California suddenly woke up one day and said: "Let's screw the average boat owner with more nutty environmental regulations!"

That's not what happened.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many people think that politicians are wiser than the "invisible hand." We need some minimal regulations but then let the market take over. It will be the market, not DC or Sacramento, that will perfect the electric car, the hydrogen car, the hybrid car, or whatever becomes the post-oil technology, if it is even needed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top