Who has tried moving to another state (San Diego, San Francisco: insurance, tenants)
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These complaints are nothing new. This has been the conservative gripe about California for decades now. You guys try to make it sound like California has suddenly changed and taken a turn for the worse but, actually, it hasn't.
The only thing that really changed was housing prices got really high. When it comes down to it ... that's the big complaint.
And yeah ... that was really bad news for buyers, but it was fantastic news for sellers. A lot of people became millionaires by selling their houses ... so it certainly wasn't a bad thing for everybody.
California actually made a lot of people rich just by the simple act of owning a home. Sounds like the California dream to me ...
So naturally the disgruntled who weren't able to cash in or ... the disgruntled who paid too much for the their houses are going to scream bloody murder than the entire state as gone straight to hell ... and a lot of them will move.
Go ahead and move to phantom utopia ... the rest of us know better. We're busy making plans for the next Calfornia gold rush.
As the old saying goes ... buy on bad news.
Although some ppl would feel like you're being insensitive to those who couldn't make it in CA and making light of the 'horrible' situation that makes up CA, I personally think you are dead on. That is the major and basically the only complaint that anti-californians can make...it's too expensive. But you pay the price for where you live. CA has it all. Period.
I and all the guys I know who moved would agree with Niners fan. We all ran successful businesses in CA, but found each year to be harder than the last. Taxes, regulations, employees wages, environmental laws, traffic and a general decline in the standard of living pushed us out. We moved our companies to places we could operate more easliy (one guy to Washington, one to Arizona, two to Colorado, and one to Texas). And we took a ton of CA income tax with us. We had no problem affording real estate in CA - any of us could have lived in Newport Beach or anywhere else we liked.
We'd like to see CA come back, but there's just no chance. Once you train a populace to vote based on their receiving goodies you can't go back. Same thing seems to be happening on a national level, but at least our new states have a little common sense in the way they are governed.
I've always said that I didn't move to Colordo. I moved away from California. But once here it does have a lot going for it. Still enjoy trips to the left coast tho.
There's no chance of California coming back? LOL ... this is hilarious. You make it sound like California is a ghost town ...
You really need to take a drive through my neck of the woods where commercial construction is booming. There are so many new office buildings, malls, industrial parks, hospitals, etc. under construction right now .... it's absolutely unbelievable ...
You and your small business owner friends may be leaving ... but I see tons of major corporations investing millions here.
Well with all that tax money from those booming corporations there should be no problem handling the huge state budget deficit. And you can't blame the deficit on falling real estate prices. The tax on my home in OC hasn't dropped a dime. But I sure took a bunch of income tax money with me when I moved. Lets wait and see.
You and your small business owner friends may be leaving ... but I see tons of major corporations investing millions here.
Maybe they know something you don't ...
I believe that is the point... the wealthy and poor will always be here... it is small business and the middle class feeling the pressure to re-locate...
I believe that is the point... the wealthy and poor will always be here... it is small business and the middle class feeling the pressure to re-locate...
And you think the middle class squeeze is limited to California? I guess you haven't read the news lately because the middle class squeeze is a nationwide problem.
Classic case in point: Niners fan recently stated that Starbucks was crazy to pay health benefits for most of its employees. Presumably this means that Niner doesn't pay health benefits for most of his employees ...
At that point, what difference does it make what state he lives in? His employees are going to be squeezed either way. But at least with Starbucks their employees will still get their health insurance.
Who's squeezing who? A couple of small business owners who don't want to pay for any health insurance? Or the big corporation that still provides at least some health insurance for their employees?
Because those employees are middle class too ... not just the small business owners.
And you think the middle class squeeze is limited to California? I guess you haven't read the news lately because the middle class squeeze is a nationwide problem.
It is definitely worse in California. And made worse by the policies coming out of Sacramento. If you think that driving small and mid-sized companies is not going to have a very negative impact on the middle class then you are lacking a very basic understanding of economics. It is also going to impact government programs for the poor, as well as everything else the state funds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257
Classic case in point: Niners fan recently stated that Starbucks was crazy to pay health benefits for most of its employees. Presumably this means that Niner doesn't pay health benefits for most of his employees ...
At that point, what difference does it make what state he lives in? His employees are going to be squeezed either way. But at least with Starbucks their employees will still get their health insurance.
Because some states have higher tax rates and regulatory compliance costs (like California). Not only does that make California companies less competitive nationwide but it reduces the amount of money available to pay employees. My point was that if Starbucks is going to provide health insurance for part-time employees then at some point their coffee is going to be uncompetitively expensive. And I never used the word "crazy." It is a nice gesture but in the real world is not going to work.
FYI, we provide health insurance to about half of our employees - the management and skilled positions. It is difficult to justify paying for health insurance for a minimally skilled position where the worker could be replaced by someone from a temp agency. You will be pleased to know, however, that just this week I started looking into how we might be able to do that.
Did you realize that the reason why employers commonly provide health insurance benefits for employees dates back to WWII when there were wage controls in place. If the government had not instituted the wage controls then it is likely that people would be buying their own health insurance that they could take from job to job. (Can you imagine your employer providing your car insurance?)
Out of curiosity, Sheri257, is there anything about California that you don't like? Besides there being too many conservatives, apparently. Don't worry many of us are leaving as we are able to.
I moved from Los Angeles to New England. I moved for a lot of reasons. Los Angeles was too expensive, too crowded. I wanted to experience snow in wintertime. I preferred the New England values and traditions.
I'm happy I made the move, but life is totally different now. I think it's good to take risks and try something new. It's scary, but when you finally make it to the other side, you realize, hey, that wasn't so tough after all.
Besides, I just love wearing jackets and scarves and my new LL Bean boots!
San Francisco requires one of the highest minimum wages in the country and health benefits... companies continue to leave... even the CSAA is leaving after a 100 years. (The AAA Auto Club)
Starbucks is going through a round of layoffs as we speak.
I stand by my statement that actions have consequences... this is a global economy and now we have to compete with NAFTA...
I worked for years in manufacturing and NOT ONE of the manufacturing companies is still here... manufacturing provided living wages and benefits.
We moved to the Seattle area in June of 06. We're currently trying to find jobs back in CA to move back.
V. =)
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