I have to say reading these threads make me believe there aren't many positives about California (Oakland: schools, garden)

[OC Investor2]

Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes

Not my problem. You know ... when I was 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 years old my friends were out partying and having a blast. Not me. I had my nose glued to a book and all of my weekends were spent studying and doing homework. I paid my dues. It was always impressed upon me growing up that you get the hard stuff and the dirty work out of the way FIRST - then you can party and enjoy your life when you are older. Am I supposed to feel guilty because I sacrificed early in life? Try harder, because I'm not feeling the guilt.

Of course its your problem. Do you think you can build a community or society with just rich people & upper middle class acheivers? Who's going to collect the trash, build the houses, police the streets, etc, etc.?

Nice to hear your efforts in school paid off, but it's not just all about you. This state won't be a place you or anyone else will want to live if we can't make it work for all levels of the economic ladder. And it's getting to the point where it's not just the poor who struggle, but the middle class as well. If current trends continue you're going to need a wall around your little slice of paradise to keep out the poor masses - just like every other rich person living in the 3rd world.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

Of course its your problem. Do you think you can build a community or society with just rich people & upper middle class acheivers? Who's going to collect the trash, build the houses, police the streets, etc, etc.?

Nice to hear your efforts in school paid off, but it's not just all about you. This state won't be a place you or anyone else will want to live if we can't make it work for all levels of the economic ladder. And it's getting to the point where it's not just the poor who struggle, but the middle class as well. If current trends continue you're going to need a wall around your little slice of paradise to keep out the poor masses - just like every other rich person living in the 3rd world.

Yep. Not every job that's necessary to society pays $150k.

[4beanie]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Having experienced the past 40 plus years here, for me personally, there was a turning point toward the negative during the 1980s. Don't get me wrong, money wise I'm good, own property in a good place, etc. I also get my fill, constantly, of what the Formerly-Golden-State has to offer. My issue is more cultural (maybe even, spiritual?). The overwhelming of the original Old West culture of this state made it less comfortable. I really miss that. Oh sure, there are still pockets out there. But it is long past the point of no return. It's hard for most people who live here today to understand what I mourn. You'd have to have been here prior to the mid 80s (and beyond that, you'd have to have been something besides an insular center city urbanite) to completely comprehend this. Indeed, the best days are passed for the Formerly-Golden-State. I'll stick it out as long as it makes sense, but at some point, my tolerance of the People's Republic of Kalifornia may run dry.

you hit the nail on the head. Ive been here 53 years and seen so much change. Luckily I've moved a few times to get away from too much population. But it seems to follow you. I miss the southern Ca I grew up in. (I now live in Northern Ca.) I can't even visit anymore it just makes me sad.

[4beanie]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

Of course its your problem. Do you think you can build a community or society with just rich people & upper middle class acheivers? Who's going to collect the trash, build the houses, police the streets, etc, etc.?

Nice to hear your efforts in school paid off, but it's not just all about you. This state won't be a place you or anyone else will want to live if we can't make it work for all levels of the economic ladder. And it's getting to the point where it's not just the poor who struggle, but the middle class as well. If current trends continue you're going to need a wall around your little slice of paradise to keep out the poor masses - just like every other rich person living in the 3rd world.

It's funny that you say that about the walls. Twinkle's info says La Quinta. Have you been there? The neighborhoods are all gated and fenced with brick walls with many having their own golf course and country club enclosed with them. Kinda makes since that she likes her slice of Ca.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by 4beanie

I miss the southern Ca I grew up in. (I now live in Northern Ca.) I can't even visit anymore it just makes me sad.

Same here. Lived many other places, thanks, to the military but have spent about 43 of my 62 years here in CA. Also originally from SoCal but currently living in NorCal.

It is painful to see what's happened to the southern California of the 40s through the 70s in particular. I no longer visit either for that reason.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It is painful to see what's happened to the southern California of the 40s through the 70s in particular. I no longer visit either for that reason.

That's a big reason for my discontent in living in the San Fernando Valley. I remember when there was very little traffic. I remember miles of orange groves in the west Valley. I remember when the Valley was a really nice place, nice enough to spend the rest of my life there. SFV was a peaceful pretty place.

What we have now may be nice for some people, probably is, but I bet most of them weren't here when it was really nice.

I've been here since I was an infant, born in another section of Los Angeles. I expect to move out of state, hopefully soon.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

I remember miles of orange groves in the west Valley.

When I left Orange County in 1956, except for the Irvine Ranch area (pastureland) it was almost all orange groves with two lane roads between towns. By the time I returned in 1961 some orange groves remained. I left again in 1966 and by the time I returned in 1969 smog was beginning to replace the oranges. Leaving again in 1974 and returning in 1978 the lack of orange trees was remarkable. I moved elsewhere and never returned.

In 1992 I flew from Sacramento to Orange County for a speaking engagement. Coming into John Wayne Airport I was appalled to see nothing but housing and commercial rooftops. If an orange tree remains in the entire county it's in someone's back yard. The same goes for the beautiful fields of strawberries that used to surround Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm has become nothing more than another amusement park.

It's enough to make you cry!

[D-Towner]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

When I left Orange County in 1956, except for the Irvine Ranch area (pastureland) it was almost all orange groves with two lane roads between towns. By the time I returned in 1961 some orange groves remained. I left again in 1966 and by the time I returned in 1969 smog was beginning to replace the oranges. Leaving again in 1974 and returning in 1978 the lack of orange trees was remarkable. I moved elsewhere and never returned.

In 1992 I flew from Sacramento to Orange County for a speaking engagement. Coming into John Wayne Airport I was appalled to see nothing but housing and commercial rooftops. If an orange tree remains in the entire county it's in someone's back yard. The same goes for the beautiful fields of strawberries that used to surround Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm has become nothing more than another amusement park.

It's enough to make you cry!

that sucks

[razorback_06]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

When I left Orange County in 1956, except for the Irvine Ranch area (pastureland) it was almost all orange groves with two lane roads between towns. By the time I returned in 1961 some orange groves remained. I left again in 1966 and by the time I returned in 1969 smog was beginning to replace the oranges. Leaving again in 1974 and returning in 1978 the lack of orange trees was remarkable. I moved elsewhere and never returned.

In 1992 I flew from Sacramento to Orange County for a speaking engagement. Coming into John Wayne Airport I was appalled to see nothing but housing and commercial rooftops. If an orange tree remains in the entire county it's in someone's back yard. The same goes for the beautiful fields of strawberries that used to surround Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm has become nothing more than another amusement park.

It's enough to make you cry!

It's called American Suburbia. All cities have it. SoCal is no different. And your point is?

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

When I left Orange County in 1956, except for the Irvine Ranch area (pastureland) it was almost all orange groves with two lane roads between towns. By the time I returned in 1961 some orange groves remained. I left again in 1966 and by the time I returned in 1969 smog was beginning to replace the oranges. Leaving again in 1974 and returning in 1978 the lack of orange trees was remarkable. I moved elsewhere and never returned.

I know that you know this, but for other people's benefit: Orange County gets its name from the orange groves that used to be there.

These days they should rename it Shopping Center County.