Who's really considering moving out of California (San Diego, Newport Beach: city hall, theater)

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

It matters little about which types of businesses are actually hiring them since all businesses would be subjected to the same regulations and extra costs, not just the ones hiring illegals.

So it's not worth the extra costs to follow the law? I don't see exactly how businesses that don't hire illegals would have any significant increase in costs, other than maybe verifying that prospective employees have the right to work here. If that's too hard then maybe they should move out of the state.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

So it's not worth the extra costs to follow the law? I don't see exactly how businesses that don't hire illegals would have any significant increase in costs, other than maybe verifying that prospective employees have the right to work here. If that's too hard then maybe they should move out of the state.

Is it worth the extra costs? To you maybe. To the business owners? That's something they'd have to decide. You can't decide it for them. And is it actually unlawful for companies to hire illegal immigrants? How can you determine if they did it knowingly? That's the issue.

All businesses should be following the law, yes. But we all know that most will do the absolute minimum in terms of background checks when necessary, especially if it means saving money. Not to mention there isn't much risk to them if they end up hiring an undocumented worker really. New verification regulations would almost certainly increase the cost of doing business for all companies. In their eyes, it would be just another added cost going against them. If you think any business who doesn't like adding more costs/regulations should move out of state, then be prepared for even worse economic times. The more regulation and higher operation costs, the more tax revenue that will be lost when businesses do move.

Being a small business owner (with no employees) I can see both sides of this issue. Non-business owners want to make the business owner responsible. Business owners don't feel they should have to incur the extra costs of new regulations just because some businesses aren't doing the right thing. It's easy to put the responsibility on others.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

Is it worth the extra costs? To you maybe. To the business owners? That's something they'd have to decide. You can't decide it for them. And is it actually unlawful for companies to hire illegal immigrants?

Business owners will pass the costs on to their customers. There should be no competitive advantage or disadvantage to any business since they would all follow the law equally. As a customer I don't mind paying more to have all businesses follow the law.

Is it lawful to hire illegal immigrants? You have to ask?


It's time to discuss something else or risk topic moderation. The moderators prefer that illegal immigration should be discussed in C-D's Illegal Immigration discussion area. We have gotten as close to the forbidden area as I feel comfortable, maybe too close, so I'll appreciate your cooperation in winding down this discussion of hiring illegals. Enough!

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Business owners will pass the costs on to their customers.

I still think this assumption is oversimplified. I think the added costs of more regulation would hurt businesses in California, even if it is needed. The added costs would drive more businesses out and negatively affect tax revenues, putting more stress on the tax payer. And yes, I know it's unlawful, just making a point about how it's determined. Rereading my post, I can see I didn't make the point well.

But you're right, we've gone pretty far off topic. Sorry everyone.

Back on topic.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by AKgirlinCA

Aww shucks! Thanks And to those have pointed out that not all areas of CA are congested/busy etc, I do realize that, and quite honestly I could probably be happy in an area like San Luis Obispo, or heck even Big Bear, but those places do not have the job opportunities needed by my husband and I, and the prices of homes just can't beat Texas combined with a business friendly government and jobs that actually pay in line with cost of living CA is headed down the tubes at a quick rate, and I'm not going to stand by and watch it get worse.

SLO and Big Bear are nice, but, as you say, the job base just isn't there. And the COL in those areas is still quite high.

You are right, TX is much more business friendly, and that is part of the reason why the cost of living there is lower. It seems that many Californians forget that all the rules, regulations, & taxes we have here drive up the cost of doing business and thus the cost of living for everyone else, hitting low and middle income people the hardest.

[MotleyCrew]

We left our home in Magalia, CA for AZ 4 years ago. We had an architectural practice there and enjoyed our life for the first 10 + years while our kids were in or finishing school. What prompted us to finally leave was the business taxes, workmans compensation taxes and property taxes on our tiny cottage. We could see the writting on the wall and realized that we would not be able to retire in my home state. People can't seem to pass on a single bond issue, especially if it is "for the schools" and the schools never seem to improve afterwards. The voters pile on one "Healthy Baby" program after another and CA really does have some healthy babies, which is good, but we simply cant afford to participate now. The good people in Ca will have to face some tough choices in the near future, to continue to vote in one social welfare program after another and continue to raise income taxes until even the richest of the inhabitants cant continue, or to finally say we have had enough. It is your choice and I wish you the best.

[4beanie]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

We left our home in Magalia, CA for AZ 4 years ago. We had an architectural practice there and enjoyed our life for the first 10 + years while our kids were in or finishing school. What prompted us to finally leave was the business taxes, workmans compensation taxes and property taxes on our tiny cottage. We could see the writting on the wall and realized that we would not be able to retire in my home state. People can't seem to pass on a single bond issue, especially if it is "for the schools" and the schools never seem to improve afterwards. The voters pile on one "Healthy Baby" program after another and CA really does have some healthy babies, which is good, but we simply cant afford to participate now. The good people in Ca will have to face some tough choices in the near future, to continue to vote in one social welfare program after another and continue to raise income taxes until even the richest of the inhabitants cant continue, or to finally say we have had enough. It is your choice and I wish you the best.

Thanks Motley

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It's ridiculous how theft happy, drug happy and gang-banging this country is; says the former cop!

"Violence is as American as apple pie"

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

SLO and Big Bear are nice, but, as you say, the job base just isn't there. And the COL in those areas is still quite high.

You are right, TX is much more business friendly, and that is part of the reason why the cost of living there is lower. It seems that many Californians forget that all the rules, regulations, & taxes we have here drive up the cost of doing business and thus the cost of living for everyone else, hitting low and middle income people the hardest.

I read an article recently that talked about how politicians on both sides came together in the early 90's to help tackle the economic problems in California. One of the things they did was deregulate to help make the state more business-friendly. I think that it's time to cut back on a little bit of the regulation in California, or at least put a halt to more of it, and try to prevent more businesses from leaving.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

One of the things they did was deregulate to help make the state more business-friendly.

One of the things they deregulated was the power industry (electricity) which set the stage for California to get screwed in later years by out of state energy companies.