Adviced on moving to CA? (Sacramento, Vallejo: unemployment, buying, luxury)

[Steve97415]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

So I should walk a mile to the store and haul a week's worth of groceries for 4 people back with me? And the kids are with me every day, so I should have 2 preschoolers walk with me too? My car is a necessity. I am not lazy.

Yes. That's exactly what I do, and you could, too.

Americans tend to presume that automobile culture is an ineluctable necessity of life, yet 85% of the world's population runs their errands either in the way just described or with the assistance of public transit.
U.S. car culture is unbelievably destructive to the environment. It directly kills 167 people a day...that's a the equivalent of a 9/11 event on the country's roadways every year. Trying to accommodate both automobile circulation and parking is an urban planning nightmare that results in living environments of social isolation. Traffic congestion makes our cities unlivable and our air unbreathable. Our veneration of petroleum leads us into international conflicts and is changing the climate of the whole planet. Cars cause a terrific amount of mental stress. Psychologists tell us that "road rage" is now considered a recognized form of mental impairment. Physicians tell us that the rising incidence of type II diabetes in children aged 10-19 is becoming an alarming epidemic that is due largely to a sedentary lifestyle: parents are simply driving their kids everywhere they want to go and not responsibly introducing them to an ambulatory way of life.

Not only are cars not a necessity, they are destroying us. Regardless of what our transportation preferences might be, individually-owned cars are not a sustainable strategy. The math simply doesn't work to continue the status quo. We can either reduce our dependence on them voluntarily or continue on our current course and watch the whole system collapse.

[krock1dk]

A person needs to do some serious homework B4 considering a move to CA. It was once the crown jewel of America, but the state's liberal politics has since turned it into a place of runaway regulations, taxes, beurocracies, immoral government spending, illegal immigration, taxes, bad air, bad schools, bad traffic, taxes, a HUGE deficit and almost bankrupt, taxes, ridiculous cost of living, and a nanny state. Did I mention taxes? Illegal immigration is probably the biggest factor in the state's financial ills. California's burdens are now PUSHING people into other states. You better spend some serious time there or have a really good job lined up B4 moving to CA. It could be a huge mistake.

[rkb0305]

Originally Posted by Steve97415

Yes. That's exactly what I do, and you could, too.

Americans tend to presume that automobile culture is an ineluctable necessity of life, yet 85% of the world's population runs their errands either in the way just described or with the assistance of public transit.
U.S. car culture is unbelievably destructive to the environment. It directly kills 167 people a day...that's a the equivalent of a 9/11 event on the country's roadways every year. Trying to accommodate both automobile circulation and parking is an urban planning nightmare that results in living environments of social isolation. Traffic congestion makes our cities unlivable and our air unbreathable. Our veneration of petroleum leads us into international conflicts and is changing the climate of the whole planet. Cars cause a terrific amount of mental stress. Psychologists tell us that "road rage" is now considered a recognized form of mental impairment. Physicians tell us that the rising incidence of type II diabetes in children aged 10-19 is becoming an alarming epidemic that is due largely to a sedentary lifestyle: parents are simply driving their kids everywhere they want to go and not responsibly introducing them to an ambulatory way of life.

Not only are cars not a necessity, they are destroying us. Regardless of what our transportation preferences might be, individually-owned cars are not a sustainable strategy. The math simply doesn't work to continue the status quo. We can either reduce our dependence on them voluntarily or continue on our current course and watch the whole system collapse.

You make some good points. I am actually a bit of an environmentalist, and I do feel guilty about driving a lot of the time. We chose where we live because it is close to DH's work. He does drive, but better 3 miles than 20, right? Our preschool is over a mile away, and DS's elem school for next year is close to a mile away. On nice days, I'll walk to pick him up. The way things are developed these days, it is just not feasible to walk all the time. How long does it take you to make a grocery store run? Seriously?

[Steve97415]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

How long does it take you to make a grocery store run? Seriously?

If I'm making a dedicated grocery store trip I'll usually walk since it's only about 8 blocks to a major market. But I commute to work by bike, so I don't make a lot of individual "runs" for errands. A bicycle-based lifestyle tends to inspire trip consolidation. I have two folding panniers on the back of my bike. Folded up, they are unobtrusive and each about the size of a magazine.



Unfolded, they each easily hold a full-sized grocery bag (I don't generally use grocery bags, I just unhook the panniers from the rack and fill the panniers directly up with groceries...or produce from the farmers market as the case may be). Riding home, there's no car trunk to unload, I unhook the panniers and take them right to the fridge and pantry.



I can route my return ride from work to home past any number of grocery stores, so there is virtually no task-specific time lost to traveling to the store. We do virtually no impulse buying or idle browsing in our approach to procuring food, so I quickly go through the store and buy what is on the list. I'm generally in and out in less than 10 minutes using the self-check lane. I can easily ride home with 30-40 lbs. of groceries.
So even doing this about twice a week, I lose far less time out of my life just dropping by the store to load up my panniers on the way home from work than I would making a special trip to the store, hunting for a parking spot, walking from there to the grocery cart area, getting a cart, filling it up, wheeling it out to the car, unloading the cart, driving home and unloading the car.
As it turns out, low-impact ways of living actually turn out to more convenient than wasteful ones, not less so. It's just the challenge of getting Americans to accept modes of task completion that involve something other than sitting on their butts and operating some kind of technology with their hands.

[mysticaltyger]

I do not see the point of moving somewhere like Fresno or San Bernardino. Sac is one of the only inland places I would consider (I lived there in the mid 90s). Otherwise, the inland places are not really that cheap (yes, cheap by California standards, but generally still well above the US average) and arent that great. The weather in the inland places is not that great either (hot in San Bernardino, slightly chilly in winter in Fresno and hot in summer).

The hard part is making a decent living in the areas where most people want to live, especially without college. However, it depends on the type of person you are. If you are willing to work both hard and smart and are enterprising, that might work. But most of us do not have all 3 of those qualities or are not willing to develop them to the extent necessary. Maybe you are different. But be prepared.

I would add that the scenery and weather really are great here. But there is a strong tendency to overestimate how happy these things will make you. ultimately, happiness and success are an inside job. At different times in my life, I have been happy here as well as miserable, and the scerery and weather were a constant.

And finally, as another poster said, the long term trend seems to be for our corrupt/inept state government to run us into the ground. CA now has the worst credit rating of all 50 states. Illegal immigration is a serious problem, although I think the previous poster overestimated its serverity a bit. A lot of people move out of CA because they get sick of paying for a high cost of living, above average taxes, and getting mediocre/lousy schools and other public services in return.

The air quality issue is one of the few things CA is getting right. Places like Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Fresno, and Sacramento DO have crappy air quality. But the general trend over the last 20 or 30 years is that air pollution has declined significantly in CA (and elsewhere).

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by Wurzig

The good thing about Fresno is that it is not that far from Y O S E M I T E!

My preference is either Kings Canyon or the National Forest, both are much less crowded and still beautiful. It only takes 1 hour to drive from Fresno to Grant Grove, going from an elevation of 300 ft to an elevation of 6600 ft.

[timelesschild]

Originally Posted by Steve97415

If I'm making a dedicated grocery store trip I'll usually walk since it's only about 8 blocks to a major market. But I commute to work by bike, so I don't make a lot of individual "runs" for errands. A bicycle-based lifestyle tends to inspire trip consolidation. I have two folding panniers on the back of my bike. Folded up, they are unobtrusive and each about the size of a magazine.



Unfolded, they each easily hold a full-sized grocery bag (I don't generally use grocery bags, I just unhook the panniers from the rack and fill the panniers directly up with groceries...or produce from the farmers market as the case may be). Riding home, there's no car trunk to unload, I unhook the panniers and take them right to the fridge and pantry.



I can route my return ride from work to home past any number of grocery stores, so there is virtually no task-specific time lost to traveling to the store. We do virtually no impulse buying or idle browsing in our approach to procuring food, so I quickly go through the store and buy what is on the list. I'm generally in and out in less than 10 minutes using the self-check lane. I can easily ride home with 30-40 lbs. of groceries.
So even doing this about twice a week, I lose far less time out of my life just dropping by the store to load up my panniers on the way home from work than I would making a special trip to the store, hunting for a parking spot, walking from there to the grocery cart area, getting a cart, filling it up, wheeling it out to the car, unloading the cart, driving home and unloading the car.
As it turns out, low-impact ways of living actually turn out to more convenient than wasteful ones, not less so. It's just the challenge of getting Americans to accept modes of task completion that involve something other than sitting on their butts and operating some kind of technology with their hands.

I like your description, including photos. I totally agree with you that we could and should lose the cars as much as possible. In fact, in my single/early married days, I was talking your same talk, riding my bicycle everywhere, and those were grand times.

But it is not that easy with children. Where are you going to pack your child, his/her violin and bookbag, and the baby? It starts to get overwhelming. So you start driving again. It isn't about being lazy per se.... although I know there are plenty of lazy people too...

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

Elkhart County, IN does NOT have the country's highest unemployment rate, only compared to its size. The highest unemployment rate would be in rural West Texas and North Dakota.

These are all from March 2009, the month with the most recent stats available.

Elkhart County, IN unemployment rate: 18.8%

Taylor County, TX (Abilene): 4.9%
El Paso County, TX (El Paso): 8.2%
Lubbock County, TX (Lubbock): 4.4%
Midland County, TX (Midland): 4.9%
Ector County, TX (Odessa): 6.2%
Tom Green County, TX (San Angelo): 5.6%
Brewster County, TX (Alpine): 4.3%
Howard County, TX (Big Spring) 6.6%

Hmmm, all of those West Texas counties are doing better than Elkhart......the Texas county with the highest unemployment rate is Starr County, which is in South Texas, with an unemployment rate of 16.4% which is still better than Elkhart.

North Dakota unemployment rate: 4.2%. ROFL

All compared with CA's which is 11.5%, which is still better than Elkhart.

Check your "facts", please.


To the OP, look into Solano County. Vallejo, Fairfield, Vacaville, etc. Smack dab between the SF Bay Area and Sacramento. Better than average unemployment rate (by CA standards), housing prices are in a free-fall, and you wouldn't be too far from things to do. It would most likely be a boring suburban living environment, but I'm sure at the very least would be a step up from Elkhart.

Good luck to you.

[impala666]

Originally Posted by jc76

It's been a long time coming and I think I will be ready to move to CA later this year. I have about 40K and a new car thats paid off. No credit card debt, no kids, 32 male. My Mom recently passed from Cancer and it has always been my dream to live in CA mainly for weather and entertainment. She was VERY supportive of my dream and I really wanna make it happen, and yes I am aware of the horrific economy. I have been to LA several times and while I like LA I think I would rather live somewhere in CA that is a little smaller and nicer.
My main concern is work. I do not have a college degree and I have tried college several times and it just did not work out, everything else in my life I have been successful in, but not college. I am a handyman/ Jack of all trades with computer knowledge and lots of experience with the public. Don't tell me to work at Jack-in-the Box please, I am asking for some sincere advice.
So what I am asking you: What would be a decent area for a guy in my situation to check out? I am open to Fresno, San Bernardino, Sac, whatever just give me some input please. I am planning a road trip this Summer to drive all over California. Thanks in advance.

Buy a fast food franchise and live in the back room.
You should make it big time in California!!

But go for busy not beauty.

[jc76]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

These are all from March 2009, the month with the most recent stats available.

Elkhart County, IN unemployment rate: 18.8%

Taylor County, TX (Abilene): 4.9%
El Paso County, TX (El Paso): 8.2%
Lubbock County, TX (Lubbock): 4.4%
Midland County, TX (Midland): 4.9%
Ector County, TX (Odessa): 6.2%
Tom Green County, TX (San Angelo): 5.6%
Brewster County, TX (Alpine): 4.3%
Howard County, TX (Big Spring) 6.6%

Hmmm, all of those West Texas counties are doing better than Elkhart......the Texas county with the highest unemployment rate is Starr County, which is in South Texas, with an unemployment rate of 16.4% which is still better than Elkhart.

North Dakota unemployment rate: 4.2%. ROFL

All compared with CA's which is 11.5%, which is still better than Elkhart.

Check your "facts", please.


To the OP, look into Solano County. Vallejo, Fairfield, Vacaville, etc. Smack dab between the SF Bay Area and Sacramento. Better than average unemployment rate (by CA standards), housing prices are in a free-fall, and you wouldn't be too far from things to do. It would most likely be a boring suburban living environment, but I'm sure at the very least would be a step up from Elkhart.

Good luck to you.

Thank You David for posting the FACTS! Many people tend to think i am BSing about Elkharts Unemployment rate, trust me I know well over 20 people just around me that are out of work, even the fast food places are not hiring. Luckily I saved all my money.
Vallejo has also been suggested by other people I know. As long as I can go to state parks and mountains to camp and hike I really dont need to live in a "happening" area. My main reason for moving is atmosphere and weather. I'm just burned out on flat humid locations filled with tons of bugs and nothing to do...and of course our long brutal winters.