Time Magazine thought California was done in the 70s & again in the 90s (job openings, buy)

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by user_id

Taxes and property costs are not the only thing that matter to businesses, that is why I mentioned a number of other things in my of my previous posts. California has a lot of talent, but other areas have grown a lot the last 20 years and also offer a good pool of talent. The high cost of living has actually pushed out talent from the state and also made it difficult for California businesses to get people to relocate here.

Even if the Silicon Valley continued to see a decline in the number of high tech companies located there, it would still be a major destination for those looking for high tech jobs due to the sheer number of openings and opportunities. Same goes for just about all of the major industries in California. Agriculture and film-making are not going to disappear, nor is the tourist industry. And even with more regions competing for that talent, there's no reason to think that CA won't remain near the top of the list. Just look at this article:
bizjournals: The Top 100 tech centers

It would appear that there are still a ton of jobs in the tech industry in CA compared to other US regions. There are just more people than there are jobs, which is the case everywhere.

Yes, there is reason to worry about the high unemployment rate. But show me a US region that is immune to the bad economy. Chances are, the state with the most people and largest economy will experience some of the hardest times. The news isn't all bad. But for some, it's not going to recover in time or to their liking. Others are still somewhat optimistic and will roll with the punches.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by RobE

California isn't finished. It will carry on. Just not with its past luster and as a special place in the world. And that makes me sad.

We left. Not because of the doom and gloom. But because we wanted to try something new and felt Denver might be a better location for us to raise a family. It has turned out great so far. But we still will probably move back to be closer to family in a year or two.

We have a lot of friends and family in Northern CA who don't seem to share the negative outlook many here have. Few of them are well off. They just see these bad times as part of the nation's economic downturn. Most of them, young and old, will ride it out because they love living in CA. They will endure because they enjoy everything CA has to offer. I tried hard to lure more friends/family out here to Denver with us, but with little to no success. Most people we know out there simply love living there, and will most likely adapt to whatever the future holds for the state. No, they don't have big homes, and many complain about how far their dollar will go. But they have no real intentions of leaving. My father will never leave the state, no matter how bad off his situation is. And many of my good friends simply feel that even though it's expensive, it's still better than anywhere else in the nation.

So no matter what some will have you believe, there are still plenty who will not leave CA and plenty who are still considering moving there despite its current issues. I just can't see the state dying like some here think it will. And I don't think the US could afford to allow CA to crash and burn anyway.

[Ludachris]

I think if people spent more time in the CA sub forums here, they'd come across a lot more people who like living there. It seems more people spend time in the main CA forum complaining than in the sub forums.

We're considering the Sacramento region and I've come across a few people who have moved back there from out of state because they missed it so much. Even though it costs more to live in CA in general, it's still possible for the average person to enjoy life there if you find the right area. It's just not for everyone - but I think that has been the case for decades. It might be more difficult to find the right job or the right area to live, but if you do, it's pretty enjoyable, as many will agree.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Finally something I can agree with you on at least in part. Yes, the cost of living is higher in CA than many other states. This is common knowledge and it includes rents. However salaries are also higher than many states. Now that is not to say that there are not some states with decent pay 'and' lower housing costs.

Salaries are not that high in California, any increase in salary rarely offsets the increase in costs. There is really no good reason California has to be so expensive, its engineered that way.

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Well, maybe part of this is insider information then. But as a native and long time resident of CA I have known of many good opportunities 'not' amoungst all the concrete or in the heart of the city.

Are you under the impression that I just moved here? I was born and raised in California. In fact given your comments, I wonder how much time you've spent in Southern California!

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

There are a lot of companies who employ ppl on the outskirts of these areas. Here are just a few examples of cities with good jobs outside the concrete jungle: Lake Forest, Long Beach, Torrance, Pasadena, La Jolla, Thousand Oaks, Ventura, Monterey, etc...

The outskirts of the cities are little different than the cities except that they are less dense. They are filled with track homes, strip malls and concrete. There is little to no charm. Lake Forest? That's the dump of South Orange County. Long Beach, Torrance, Pasadena are no different than Los Angeles (the latter at least is close to some nice mountains). Thousand Oaks? Its just an ugly suburd. There are jobs in the Conejo Valley though.

La Jolla is okay, but its rather expensive. Your average middle-class joe is not going to be able to afford it, unless they want to live in a shoebox. Ventura is okay too, but there is not much work (its too far to compute to LA, at best you could travel to the Conejo Valley) and has a drug/homeless problem.

You are just mentioning suburbs, they are just extensions of the city and part of the "concrete jungle". I'm talking about the small towns in some of California most beautiful areas.

I'm not against big cities. I'm against big ugly cities with no character. California offers nothing in terms of man made beauty, only natural beauty. If you can live around its natural beauty, great. But for those that are not independently rich or retireed that is not all that easy.

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Again it is because CA is so large. Yes, it can be the road less traveled. Although the difference is like night and day - its Huge in fact!

No its not. Southern California is essentially a slap of concrete from San Diego to Ventura. The bay area is similar just a big slap of concrete. To avoid this you have to go to the central coast, northern coast or moutaineous inland areas (well, I guess the deserts too if you like them). But those areas lack jobs.

Monterey is okay, but there are few jobs in the area and its too far to commute to the bay area. Monterey county is farming and rich people on the coast.

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

It is the sum total of the benefits in living here that have kept property values relatively high for many generations through all the economic booms and busts of the states history - simple supply and demand.

I don't agree with this, I believe its engineered this way to benefit older residents at the expense of newer residents. Texas cities have seen rapid growth, some of the fastest growing cities are in Texas, yet the property values are still rather reasonable. What's the different? Texas does not try to limit the housing stock, they let housing grow with the populatoin. They tax the hell out of property (while not taxing income) which tends to prevent the formation of property bubbles and speculation. Prop 13 on the other hand encourages state/local governemnts to inflate property values (which they can do by limiting new development) as by doing so they get more tax revenue from newer residents. Newer residents end up paying substandially more property tax than older residents. In what way does that make sense?

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

This speaks again to quality of life and what is 'most' important beyond simple dollars and cents. Is it the bigger house or closer proximity to loved ones? Everyone makes their own choice on this one.

Like I said before, most people that I know that stay here do so because of friends and family while recognizing that they would likely have a better life in another area. Personally, I moved back because mine and my wife's family are both largely in California (among other things), but it was a big mistake on almost every level.

If someone wants to stay because of their family, or they believe they just have to live by the coast, or whatever else, I don't care. Although, I think that often such people are not truly taking into consideration the costs vs benefit.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

I think if people spent more time in the CA sub forums here, they'd come across a lot more people who like living there. It seems more people spend time in the main CA forum complaining than in the sub forums.

We're considering the Sacramento region and I've come across a few people who have moved back there from out of state because they missed it so much. Even though it costs more to live in CA in general, it's still possible for the average person to enjoy life there if you find the right area. It's just not for everyone - but I think that has been the case for decades. It might be more difficult to find the right job or the right area to live, but if you do, it's pretty enjoyable, as many will agree.

Hey Luachris,

You really hit the nail on the head here. And our family enjoyed CO for many of the same reasons yours does. We also decided to move back for a number of the same reasons.

I really wish Monterey County had a sub forum like Sacramento. Even a Central CA forum would be usefull. Right now we fall somewhere between San Jose and LA. Oh well, the population is highest in the other areas hence their own sub forums I guess. However if you include all of Central CA from the east of the Sierras to the west there are a lot of cities and ppl in these areas.

Derek

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

Even if the Silicon Valley continued to see a decline in the number of high tech companies located there, it would still be a major destination for those looking for high tech jobs due to the sheer number of openings and opportunities.

I don't get your reasoning. If it continues to decline, then eventually it will not be a "major destination" for such jobs. The rust-belt was not destroyed in a day, a year, or even a decade.

Originally Posted by Ludachris

Yes, there is reason to worry about the high unemployment rate. But show me a US region that is immune to the bad economy. Chances are, the state with the most people and largest economy will experience some of the hardest times.

California has one of the highest unemployment rates, its not far behind Michigan! Also, the size of the state should work to its advantage not disadvantage. There is actually little correlation between state size and unemployment rate. Texas, the second biggest state, has a much lower unemployment rate (6.7% vs 11%).

I think the high unemployment rate in California (vs the national average) is an indication to what degree the real economy in California has been hallowed out. Almost all job growth in the last decade was related to real estate while other sectors were diversifying out of California.

[roosevelt]

I believe the negative comments about California and especially Los Angeles come from people who are older and remember what it was like from the 1940's to 1970's. What they remember has been taken away from them: the restaurants, movie houses, schools, clean neighborhoods, low crime, and especially the friendly people that existed then. You can't really criticize them because they compare California today with the way it was.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by roosevelt

I believe the negative comments about California and especially Los Angeles come from people who are older and remember what it was like from the 1940's to 1970's. What they remember has been taken away from them: the restaurants, movie houses, schools, clean neighborhoods, low crime, and especially the friendly people that existed then. You can't really criticize them because they compare California today with the way it was.

I was a kid during the 70s and yet feel more in common with the old timers than I do with Boomers who moved here in droves during the 80s and 90s from other states, and most especially, than I do with the surge of foreigners. Call it xenophobic, but that would be incorrect. I've lived abroad and travelled a lot for work and pleasure and have many friends of foreign origin. There has been a failure of assimilation. Among other issues.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by user_id

I don't get your reasoning. If it continues to decline, then eventually it will not be a "major destination" for such jobs. The rust-belt was not destroyed in a day, a year, or even a decade.


California has one of the highest unemployment rates, its not far behind Michigan! Also, the size of the state should work to its advantage not disadvantage. There is actually little correlation between state size and unemployment rate. Texas, the second biggest state, has a much lower unemployment rate (6.7% vs 11%).

I think the high unemployment rate in California (vs the national average) is an indication to what degree the real economy in California has been hallowed out. Almost all job growth in the last decade was related to real estate while other sectors were diversifying out of California.

The reasoning is that it could decline more and still have more tech jobs than most other states. And even if it lost enough jobs to where it only had the 5th or 10th highest number of job openings in the tech industry, it would still be a desirable place to live in the eyes of many.

The article I posted should give you an idea of how many tech jobs are still in the state. By listening to people here in this forum, you'd think that the tech industry in CA had disappeared. That's not the case. It has declined some, just like every other industry nationwide, but it is still relatively healthy compared to other tech areas. And if Silicon Valley were to go away, I'd imagine that the entire tech industry would likely be hurting due to a major underlying issue.

I'd like to see where you got your info about job growth in the past decade. I would believe that real estate was responsible for a lot of the job growth, but not "almost all" of it. And if anyone has sources for info on how many jobs actually left CA for other states, that would be interesting as well. I see a lot of speculation on this, but haven't been able to find solid data. We all know the situation is bad, but it would be nice to separate the assumptions from the real numbers.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by roosevelt

I believe the negative comments about California and especially Los Angeles come from people who are older and remember what it was like from the 1940's to 1970's. What they remember has been taken away from them: the restaurants, movie houses, schools, clean neighborhoods, low crime, and especially the friendly people that existed then. You can't really criticize them because they compare California today with the way it was.

Roosevelt, I think you are right in that they compare with what it was and how it has changed. I've lived here since the 60s and seen a lot of change myself. But I would 'still' rather live here than anywhere else in the country for a number of reasons.

The thing I don't buy into is the gloom and doom chicken little forecasts they proclaim on their way out to Texas or Oklahoma or where ever. California is and will 'continue' to be a great state for millions of ppl both young and old. Although it has completely soured for some who are appropriety leaving to their better place where ever that may be. So let their exodus continue. It is a healthy thing for the state. Why stay somewhere if you are miserable? You just make everyone else miserable around you.

Derek