SIMI VALLEY - 4th of July Tea Party & Freedom Rally! (Los Angeles: unemployment rate, live in)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

The UK has gravitated more and more towards privatization and "free-marketeering" of its public institutions, with some very bad results. The UK is in my view an example of how disastrous all of this is. Spain, too, now suffering 17 percent unemployment!

But look at Canada, whose banks have not been rocked nearly as badly as US and UK banks. Even Canada's conservatives site government regulation as the reason.

Now turn a gaze north to Scandinavia. Norway's unemployment is 3 percent. Sweden's GDP is again in a steady growth trend. Where is the U.S.? Five percent GDP decline in, what was it, the last one month alone? Unemployment expected to hit 12 percent on average sometime in 2010? Sorry, I'm not convinced. And what's on the horizon? Inflation. Get ready. It's coming.

I will agree with you on one thing and one thing only: yes, inflation will be next but it always follows reccessions or normally does..

Nita

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

The UK has gravitated more and more towards privatization and "free-marketeering" of its public institutions, with some very bad results. The UK is in my view an example of how disastrous all of this is. Spain, too, now suffering 17 percent unemployment!

But look at Canada, whose banks have not been rocked nearly as badly as US and UK banks. Even Canada's conservatives site government regulation as the reason.

Now turn a gaze north to Scandinavia. Norway's unemployment is 3 percent. Sweden's GDP is again in a steady growth trend. Where is the U.S.? Five percent GDP decline in, what was it, the last one month alone? Unemployment expected to hit 12 percent on average sometime in 2010? Sorry, I'm not convinced. And what's on the horizon? Inflation. Get ready. It's coming.

I believe that the coming inflation will be the least of our worries in the coming months and/or years. I honestly don't know what the RIGHT answer is to any of the problems going on in the United States, all I know is that we all have to work together soon to try and stabilize the economy and to protect our constitutional rights. As for other countries, I do feel for those who are suffering and starving, but America and Americans need to sort things here first before pumping dollars into other countries. Sometimes Isolationism is a good thing.

Personally I feel that there is too much government involvement and its getting worse every day. Have you ever read the Fair Housing laws for California? With all of the over-the-top regulation and political correctness its amazing that anyone still wishes to own residential rental property as a business! You can't even ask a potential tenant if they have children because if they do have children and are not approved to rent because of anything from bad credit to not enough income they might turn around and sue the owner for discriminating against them because they have children! Its crazy!!!

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by nmnita

I will agree with you on one thing and one thing only: yes, inflation will be next but it always follows reccessions or normally does..

Nita

You don't have to agree with me that unemployment in Norway is 3 percent while the U.S. is headed for 12 percent, or that the Swedish GDP is growing while the U.S. GDP is shrinking, or that the Canadian financial system has not been rocked to its core like in the U.S. Don't agree! Doesn't change the truth that those things are in fact... fact.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

I believe that the coming inflation will be the least of our worries in the coming months and/or years. I honestly don't know what the RIGHT answer is to any of the problems going on in the United States, all I know is that we all have to work together soon to try and stabilize the economy and to protect our constitutional rights. As for other countries, I do feel for those who are suffering and starving, but America and Americans need to sort things here first before pumping dollars into other countries. Sometimes Isolationism is a good thing.

Personally I feel that there is too much government involvement and its getting worse every day. Have you ever read the Fair Housing laws for California? With all of the over-the-top regulation and political correctness its amazing that anyone still wishes to own residential rental property as a business! You can't even ask a potential tenant if they have children because if they do have children and are not approved to rent because of anything from bad credit to not enough income they might turn around and sue the owner for discriminating against them because they have children! Its crazy!!!

The thing is this: you believe we need less government to save us economically while I'm pointing out that the countries who are doing the best right now are those with strong government involvement for the benefit of ordinary people, which I've backed with examples.

Constitutional rights are indeed important, but let's not confuse Constitutional rights with economics. Capitalism does not equal democracy.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

The thing is this: you believe we need less government to save us economically while I'm pointing out that the countries who are doing the best right now are those with strong government involvement for the benefit of ordinary people, which I've backed with examples.

Constitutional rights are indeed important, but let's not confuse Constitutional rights with economics. Capitalism does not equal democracy.

What I don't get is those who, on the one hand, rail against government workers as lazy, greedy, incompetent, overpaid, etc. and on the other hand want more government services and interventions in their lives which will be provided by those same government workers.

As Thomas Jefferson put it, "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

What I don't get is those who, on the one hand, rail against government workers as lazy, greedy, incompetent, overpaid, etc. and on the other hand want more government services and interventions in their lives which will be provided by those same government workers.

As Thomas Jefferson put it, "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

Funny, Curmudgeon, you've directed this at me twice, now. (Heard you the first time but chose to ignore.) Where did I "rail against government"?

As to the Thomas Jefferson quote, please explain how does it applies to a situation where the U.S. government gives $1.4 TRILLION to the banks -- the very same banks who kick ordinary people out of their houses into tent cities. If more than platitude, what the heck are you talking about?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

Funny, Curmudgeon, you've directed this at me twice, now. (Heard you the first time but chose to ignore.) Where did I "rail against government"?

That was for the benefit of those who do and was not directed at you.

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

As to the Thomas Jefferson quote, please explain how does it applies to a situation where the U.S. government gives $1.4 TRILLION to the banks -- the very same banks who kick ordinary people out of their houses into tent cities. If more than platitude, what the heck are you talking about?

This was. You appear to favor more government intercession and control. The bank situation is a perfect example. Government told the banks they must accept the bail-out funds and has taken "ownership" of a sizeable portion of them and their operations. This is socialism and while it may not impact my wife and me directly (our bank stands firm and alone) it will impact our children and grandchildren as they struggle to pay it all back, plus some.

This country was established on the basdis of capitalism which should be a make it or break it system. It broke! It should fix it as well. Once government interferes it continues to tighten its control which bodes ill for those of us who value freedom; especially those of us who have fought for it.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

That was for the benefit of those who do and was not directed at you.



This was. You appear to favor more government intercession and control. The bank situation is a perfect example. Government told the banks they must accept the bail-out funds and has taken "ownership" of a sizeable portion of them and their operations. This is socialism and while it may not impact my wife and me directly (our bank stands firm and alone) it will impact our children and grandchildren as they struggle to pay it all back, plus some.

This country was established on the basdis of capitalism which should be a make it or break it system. It broke! It should fix it as well. Once government interferes it continues to tighten its control which bodes ill for those of us who value freedom; especially those of us who have fought for it.

Well, aside from your mixing of capitalism and democracy, I agree with you. The recent bailout of big business and high finance has indeed turned the United States into a Socialist country. I also disagree with the bailouts. Are we a free-market economy, then the bigger they are the harder they fall. If the point of the bailouts was to "stimulate the economy" then that money would have done exactly that if given to ordinary American households -- while mitigating a whole lot of (unnecessary) suffering by the man, woman and child on Main Street (many now literally on the streets). But, alas, Washington D.C. does not represent ordinary American households, which is the reason we did not get the money. The Congress and Presidents Bush and Obama gave the money to those they represent, big business and high finance. Is anyone surprised? This is Socialism with up-side-down priorities. This kind of Socialism collapsed the USSR and nearly collapsed Social Democracies in northern and western Europe until the 60s and 70s. The "too big to fail" paradigm is a dangerous myth. No one is "too big to fail" just look at the USSR. An economy that cannot be sustained will fail.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

The "too big to fail" paradigm is a dangerous myth. No one is "too big to fail" just look at the USSR. An economy that cannot be sustained will fail.

I don't think it would be difficult to equate what's become of our society, its civility and our fiscal health, or lack thereof, with The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.

[Geo_Guy]

The term TEA Party really doesn't have anything to do with history and tea. TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already. If you think that our Federal and State governments are doing a good job. All I can say is Oh My God! Regardless of past administrations, with Obama, we have rocketed almost to the point of no return for the US. Our government it TOO big and getting bigger.