California Collapsing (Menlo Park: sales, real estate market, foreclosures)

[subsound]

Originally Posted by nicet4

I don't care what race you are or where you come from, you break our laws to get here and you need to go back. You want here then come the legal way as millions before you came.

I don't give a rats rear end what color you are or where you came from the only thing I care about is that it's done legally.

If we allow illegal where does it stop? 10 million? 100 million? 400 million? Honestly, where does it stop?

Exactly, spot on!

[sskkc]

I think California should tax Hollywood and the wealth actors that live there.

Very few actually declare California as their state of residency. Taxes are too high. They keep their "primary residences" in states like Texas and Florida, so they won't have to pay state income taxes.

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by subsound

You assume to project your prejudice on me a bit too much I think. Actually I do want to see hard working immigrants become citizens...I am the child of a hard working legal immigrant (my mother) and a son of a farming family in Indiana (who put himself through his Ph.D.). I think hard work should be a requirement for citizenship.

I think that the push for more consumption pushes costs way too low, people want more clothes in their closet rather then good ones...so people outsource and cut input costs in a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Once an item becomes the bottom people stop buying it, and the company goes away (like GM).

Unions are not the answer either (I say this being a AFSCME member), too much emphasis is placed on seniority over performance. You can be in the middle between union shops and hiring illegals and still do well.

I am the grandson of immigrants also. My grandfather who was born in Germany worked for a number of shipyards which once produced ships for U.S. companies. They were cheaper to build in Asia and he lost his job back in the late 60's. My whole life I have seen the once great American economy fall further and further. When I graduated high school in the mid 1980's job losses to Asia were already a factor for many of us. I don't mean to be prejudice but not every one was meant to go to college. Many young people have different gifts but we have away any opportunity for the success just to make the rich wealthier.

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by subsound

You assume to project your prejudice on me a bit too much I think. Actually I do want to see hard working immigrants become citizens..

The problem is the unregulated numbers of illegals crossing the border.

By allowing this politicians are killing the futures of 50% of our children.

The average IQ in the United States is 100. All of us like to think we we have a higher than average IQ (probably correct for most people who spend time on CD) and we like to think our children are smarter than average too.

Please raise your hand if you think your kids are smarter than average.

Thank you, you can all lower your hands now.

Now please raise your hand if you think your get is dumber than average.

See what I mean?

Like it or not the average IQ in this nation is 100. Half the kids in this country are smarter than average and half are dumber than average. Ok, maybe not dumber but they don't score as high as average. How's that, better?

Now these kids with an IQ < 100 are our children and we love them. Some of them may not be Mensa material but a lot of them have wonderful talents and shine in other areas.

Sorry to say we can not all be professinal engineers, doctors, lawyers and computer programmers making $200k a year. Not every kid has it in them to become a medical doctor. Get my drift?

Little Johnny next door is a good kid but he struggles in school.

What about Johnny's future?

Johnny will grow up, find a sweetheart, get married and have children of his own some day but what about his future and the future of his family?

In the 60's, 70's and 80's Johnny could become a carpenter, a bricklayer, a drywaller or a cement mason and because the pool of people capable and wantiing to do this work was limited Johnny could make the equivalent of $18 an hour in todays wages in 1982. Yeah, he struggled some but managed to marry his sweetheart and together they bought a house and built a future.

But today Johnny has no future in America because spineless politicans decided to sit back and do nothing as an estimated fifteen million unskilled illegal workers cross the borders to compete with Johnny with the hanging drywall jobs.

And it has spread. First it was drywall (we all laughed) but then it was rough carpentry followed by masonry followed by electrical work and now finished carpentry. I recently helped manage a large project with 800 workers on the project at peak. I counted heads, nothing scientific but I counted and would estimate 60% of the workers on that project were in this country illegally. I would ask (in Spanish) "Where are you from?" and the answer would be San Salvador, Nicaraugua, Gautemala or Mexico. Doesn't take a genius or racial profiler to come to the conclusion a masonry laborer from Gautemala got into this country on a work visa. Go feed that garbage to someone else.

Todays spineless politicians put the screws to the Johnny's of the country like no other politicians in history. They shafted him and good.

I know, I got an idea!

How about this, how about the United States allow everyone and anyone into the country who can write computer code? Hey, from Pakistan to India to Thailand to Russia, to China to Europe and everywhere in between if you can write computer code you can cross into the United States and look for the job of your dreams.

Imagine what the IT world would look like if only we could entice 15 million code writers to enter the country illegally and give them work?

You write code and are laughing? Don't laugh to hard because this is exactly what happened to Johnny and his drywall. electrican, masonry, carpenter etc manual labor jobs. If this happened maybe we could save money when code writers would make $12,000 a year and not the $70,000 they make today.

Johnny's future? I am afraid the only future many Johnny's will have is in the nations prison systems as inmates because a decent job simply was not available. We are all so amazed Johnny couldn't make it on $6 an hour.

Johnny, living his life in a prison built by illegal Mexican laborers. Oh the irony!

[subsound]

Originally Posted by Stac2007

I am the grandson of immigrants also. My grandfather who was born in Germany worked for a number of shipyards which once produced ships for U.S. companies. They were cheaper to build in Asia and he lost his job back in the late 60's. My whole life I have seen the once great American economy fall further and further. When I graduated high school in the mid 1980's job losses to Asia were already a factor for many of us. I don't mean to be prejudice but not every one was meant to go to college. Many young people have different gifts but we have away any opportunity for the success just to make the rich wealthier.

Oh yeah, my grandfather came from Germany with my mother in her early teens as well.

I think of the economy (and life) as shifting, with bigger shifts happening more frequently as time goes on. I don't think college is for everyone either, especially with the increasing costs and all those almost junk majors that pretty much help you do nothing except teach it to more witless undergrads later. The problem is that you have to play the game, raging against how businesses work is as effective (and can be as deadly to your future) as yelling at a hurricane to make it change it's mind about coming your way. One must dance like a monkey to get the degrees and experience in order to get the end result you want to get, one can't get the end you want by picking what one feels like doing now or by just doing the minimum. I hate it, and it's a lot of work (I was working 7:30 in the morning till 9:30 at night for a number of years) but I do it so I can provide for my family in the best way possible.

I see the other angle too, so many of the people I knew in high school are stuck in dead end and crappy jobs and they blame everyone else around them. Their boss is a jerk, their professors made their lives miserable, their coworkers kiss their bosses butt so they can't succeed, people are greedy and offshore...they can be 100% right. In the end even if it does happen they need to do something to change the situation, not just assign blame to everyone else and gripe about how unfair it is...it does nothing positive to help their situation. I know a number that are out of work now, and honestly they moan their fate at home trying to find new jobs in manufacturing or service and there's none to be had for them. I point out even my own company is paying people to be nurses, there is still a huge shortage and pays better then any get now, but it's hard work so they dismiss it.

[user_id]

The current budget problems in California rest on a certain prop that was based in 1978 (i.e., Prop 13). It lowered property tax and prevented the state from raising property tax beyond 2% a year (yet, inflation was almost always higher than that). Over time this meant the state had to get tax revenue from other sources, namely income and corporate taxes. But these sources are very cyclical, that is they move dramatically with a boom or bust. Property tax on the other hand is much less volatile.

The problem is not that taxes in California are too high, they are not dramatically higher than many other states. The problem is the way the taxes are collected. California taxes productivity while throwing wealth and real estate speculators and land owners. A Texas like tax system would solve a lot of California's problems, that is raise property taxes and lower income/corporate taxes. It would not only make tax revenue less volatile, it would also stabilize real estate in the state.

Doing business in California is not that bad, although certain industries do get hit hard by regulations (usually environmental related). The primary reason businesses (and individuals) think about leaving the state are related to the costs of living/doing business here. The majority of which hinges on real estate values. Break the speculators back in California and businesses will be able to afford to do business in the state again.

The immigration issue is just a scapegoat. The state government undoubtedly loves that people focus on it instead of them.

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by user_id

The current budget problems in California rest on a certain prop that was based in 1978 (i.e., Prop 13). It lowered property tax and prevented the state from raising property tax beyond 2% a year

And what was it that caused Prop 13? If I remember right it was out of control property taxes but politicians can never learn from their mistakes or the past.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nicet4

And what was it that caused Prop 13? If I remember right it was out of control property taxes but politicians can never learn from their mistakes or the past.

The property taxes were really not "out of control". The problem is that people want a particular level of service, but don't want to pay for it. People voted for it because, hell who does not what lower taxes? But the majority did not think about the consequences. If you are going to lower taxes you need to also reduce services!

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by nnyl

Kudos to you for putting that all so succinctly.

We are in the construction trade and have seen what you speak of, all too often. Illegal immigration has ruined the trades/construction industry.

One of my former landlords was caught in this bind. He had worked in roofing for five years and had gotten where he was being paid for being experienced. But the company he worked for was short on work and he was going quite far every week, home only on the weekend, to have work. The company was trying to keep its long term employees working.

There were other companies nearer to them, but in the area the wages were far lower. All his five years of experience would have been wiped out by someone who was willing to work for half of what he was making.

California needs to begin penalizing those who employ illegals with meaningful fines and restrictions. From what I hear now, many illegals are leaving due to lack of work, but once it returns they will too. Make it risky enough for employers to employ them that they won't and the illegals will have to find somewhere else. And make sure the illegals and family reciever NO state services what so ever as well.

My landlord when I was renting the room was hispanic, but many generations a citizen. It hurts ALL citizens.

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by user_id

The property taxes were really not "out of control". The problem is that people want a particular level of service, but don't want to pay for it. People voted for it because, hell who does not what lower taxes? But the majority did not think about the consequences. If you are going to lower taxes you need to also reduce services!

Property taxes are not out of control? Where do you live? Alaska? Here in the north east taxes are killing the average home owner. I am so glad you are able to speak for the millions who don't share your opinion.