California Collapsing (Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose: middle-class, loans, transfer)

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

California. You know, the topic of the thread....

California is now property of Mexico whether the people like it or not! With millions of illegal Mexicans there and a far more on their way I think California is a lot cause. I guess you mean city of Riverside in the Mexican state of California.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by texdav

You have to remmeber that texas has no income tax.High property taxes have not keep housing prices down. Alot has to do with teh cheap land price i Texas because of the available amounts of land. Texas also has a balanced budget and doesn'
t have the number of entitlement programs that california does.

Texas and California both have a lot of land, so that can't be used to explain the differences in the states. Stating that "housing prices are lower in Texas because land is cheaper" is just begging the question. Why is land cheaper? There seem to be three major reasons 1.) There is a lot of it, 2.) The high property taxes make holding land for speculatively reasons rather costly, 3.) Lax land use regulations.

Raising the property taxes in California would help a lot, but the state should also lower the taxes related to land development and remove some of the regulations.

Anyhow, from a budget point of view the main reason to rely more on property taxes is that they are far less volatile than income/corporate taxes. A good chuck of the deficit is from the nose dive in revenue.

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by user_id

Texas and California both have a lot of land, so that can't be used to explain the differences in the states. Stating that "housing prices are lower in Texas because land is cheaper" is just begging the question. Why is land cheaper? There seem to be three major reasons 1.) There is a lot of it, 2.) The high property taxes make holding land for speculatively reasons rather costly, 3.) Lax land use regulations.

Raising the property taxes in California would help a lot, but the state should also lower the taxes related to land development and remove some of the regulations.

Anyhow, from a budget point of view the main reason to rely more on property taxes is that they are far less volatile than income/corporate taxes. A good chuck of the deficit is from the nose dive in revenue.

If the state tries to raise property taxes I think the people are going to riot. So as usually you leave out the human equation in your proposal and deal with the logical answer which is cold and shallow towards people. Your idea is never going to fly.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Stac2007

If the state tries to raise property taxes I think the people are going to riot. So as usually you leave out the human equation in your proposal and deal with the logical answer which is cold and shallow towards people. Your idea is never going to fly.

The state really has no choice. There is no other way solve the problem, raising income taxes won't work, they are already too high and will further push out productive business.

It would be unpopular, but I doubt there would be riots. I'm talking about shifting the source of taxes, not increasing taxes. There would be no net increase in taxes. Increases in property taxes should be combined with reductions in income tax. Doing this would tax lower-income folks a bit more (but most pay no state income tax!), so it would be most unpopular with them. Assuming they even understood it.

Unfortunately the timing is bad too, increasing property taxes would likely further reduce property values. Long term this is not bad for the state, but it would make it unpopular. You'd have to increase property taxes slowly over 5~10 years.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by user_id

This is such hogwash. Do you even live in California? Vernon is an industrial area in the Los Angeles metro area. The entire city is zoned for heavy industry, that is why its population is low. The area employs around 50,000 people.

The city needs a decent number of employees to function despite its low population. The wages are not that outrageous. $100k in the Los Angeles area is like making $50k in the mid-west.

Interesting.... for someone who argues that most wage earners are "rent-seekers", letting retirees maintain 100k salaries is fine with you?

The median household income in LA is around 53k (2007)? and 60k (2000) for Vernon. So, I guess 100k for the least productive of society is perfectly fine (barring nicet4's data is accurate)?

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=05000US06037&_geoConte xt=01000US%7C04000US06%7C05000US06037&_street=&_co unty=Los+Angeles+County&_cityTown=Los+Angeles+Coun ty&_state=&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geo Select&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=050&_submenuId=facts heet_1&ds_name=DEC_2000_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name= null®=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

-chuck22b

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by user_id

The state really has no choice. There is no other way solve the problem, raising income taxes won't work, they are already too high and will further push out productive business.

It would be unpopular, but I doubt there would be riots. I'm talking about shifting the source of taxes, not increasing taxes. There would be no net increase in taxes. Increases in property taxes should be combined with reductions in income tax. Doing this would tax lower-income folks a bit more (but most pay no state income tax!), so it would be most unpopular with them. Assuming they even understood it.

Unfortunately the timing is bad too, increasing property taxes would likely further reduce property values. Long term this is not bad for the state, but it would make it unpopular. You'd have to increase property taxes slowly over 5~10 years.

In California, the municipalities, county, and State makes up for the lack of property tax incomes from Prop 13 through direct assessments ("special" assessments), mello-roos, CFDs (community facilities district), CSD (community services district), Lighting Districts, sewer and water districts, etc., etc. and other voter approved bond assessments.

What Prop 13 does, is have some places pay more for services than other places... rather than having some sort of uniform "State" or county levy rate. Therefore, property taxes are already being raised in California for many folks, but not in the common "base" property tax sense like in Texas.

So, although base property tax rates may be lower than some States, in order to actually improve on infrastructure, schools, fire, police, services, etc., etc. (what property taxes are intended for), additional direct assessments are levied onto properties essentially neutralizing Prop 13's effect.

-chuck22b

[Morphous01]

Originally Posted by nicet4

What people need to do is start making it personal with their politicians.

Imagine 100,000 people peacefully gathered outside Nancy Pelosi's house.....

EXACTLY! Because all the letters, faxes, phone calls and emails DON'T WORK!

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by Morphous01

EXACTLY! Because all the letters, faxes, phone calls and emails DON'T WORK!

Nancy Pelosi spits on the ordinary man every single day.

[floridasandy]

she is not the only one. there is new legislation for 4 weeks of paid leave for federal employees, sponsored by jim webb. they actually get 12 weeks off, but this will make 4 of the weeks paid.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

i guess pay raises and paid leave are the highest priority for congress.

in the meantime, california edges closer to meltdown:
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/calif...llapsing-34271

California is home to the largest manufacturing belt in the United States and to Silicon Valley, the nation’s largest high-tech center.

California is America’s most populous state with 38 million people. Its GDP of $1.8 trillion is the largest in the U.S. Its economy is bigger than those of Russia, Brazil, Canada, or India.


And it’s collapsing.

Major California counties are ground zero in the continuing mortgage meltdown:

Los Angeles County with 5.32 percent of mortgages 90 days past due … Monterrey County, 8.02 percent … Imperial, 8.13 … San Bernadino, 8.66 … Madeira, 9.21 … San Joaquin, 9.53 … Riverside, 10.2 … Merced, 10.57 .....
Worst Unemployment in 64 Years

The state’s unemployment rate has surged to 11.5 percent, the worst since World War II. Last month, California lost 68,900 jobs.


i would say that there is a disconnect between our elected representatives and our citizens.

[texdav]

Originally Posted by user_id

Texas and California both have a lot of land, so that can't be used to explain the differences in the states. Stating that "housing prices are lower in Texas because land is cheaper" is just begging the question. Why is land cheaper? There seem to be three major reasons 1.) There is a lot of it, 2.) The high property taxes make holding land for speculatively reasons rather costly, 3.) Lax land use regulations.

Raising the property taxes in California would help a lot, but the state should also lower the taxes related to land development and remove some of the regulations.

Anyhow, from a budget point of view the main reason to rely more on property taxes is that they are far less volatile than income/corporate taxes. A good chuck of the deficit is from the nose dive in revenue.

But in the edn those properties in California is much higher.In fact claifornia desn't actaully alow but so much land to be developed; thus the drawning in new housing additions in the 80-90's.It isn't just having land its the number of permit processes that are required and then being truned down because of such things as water limits and the availablity of sewer to plants that are concerned. I know in some areas of texas it takes goign theru like 500 sate agncies to get permission to develop land inot housing additions;and have heard its alot worse in California. Wtare connectio0ns alone can be a major problem.But Califpornia has had revenue problemns related to spending for decades tehy juts were able to borrow easier. The spending is their problem not so much revenue as its out of line and has been even when revenues were high.