U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-12-2009, 07:40 PM
 
248 posts, read 693,231 times
Reputation: 143

Advertisements

i think technology mixed with media has distracted many young people today. i agree, reality shows are on the rise and it seems that people find that more interesting than studying in school.

with many things, it should be done in moderation... but it doesn't seem to be happening.

it's a fine line on whether to be tough on high school student and impose strict rules or to let them make their own decisions and roam free.

is there something that could meet in the middle? i'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
What this really adds up to is a drop in admissions to CSUs. I don't see the good in it, especially since we are going through an economic depression and now more than ever we need an educated, skilled middle class. I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about cutting funding to universities and schools. What do they think will come of all the people who are now under educated? If more of our population is cut out of four year colleges, what jobs will be available to them? How can they possibly compete on the global market?

You also mentioned putting pressure on high school instructors. Teachers already have too much pressure. We have to worry about state tests, district tests, funding, violence, drugs. You name it. We worry about it. Putting more pressure on teachers is like trying to pour a gallon of water into a glass that is already over flowing.

I agree that our children are not getting the proper education. I've talked to seniors in high school who are about to graduate and enter "the real world" and 99% of them have no clue what a recession is, or that we are in one. Most of them have very little critical thinking/reasoning skills, and would much rather talk about American Idol than the state of America that we live in.

The only way out of this mess, is for everyone to pull together. Not say - they should do this, or they should do that. Everyone needs to help one another. So instead of being critical, help out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-12-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 2,932,914 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by lj111 View Post
i think technology mixed with media has distracted many young people today. i agree, reality shows are on the rise and it seems that people find that more interesting than studying in school.

with many things, it should be done in moderation... but it doesn't seem to be happening.

it's a fine line on whether to be tough on high school student and impose strict rules or to let them make their own decisions and roam free.

is there something that could meet in the middle? i'm not sure.
I think this is a very good discussion - seeing how critical it is to the future of California and the United States. In my own opinion, I think less pressure and rules are needed but more progression. We need to approach this problem differently.

I would love to be able to start my own school one day and teach skilled work along side accademics. Just think what would happen if we could teach the mechanics of green energy and at the same time teach about philosophy and world studies. What a different future we might have. But unfortunately we are stuck in a system that has outgrown any use it might once have had. The same thing is taught year after year. The same useless information is regurgitated.

I think the Montessori schools and the progressed private schools are a good example of the direction we need to go in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 09:36 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 5,370,649 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
What this really adds up to is a drop in admissions to CSUs. I don't see the good in it, especially since we are going through an economic depression and now more than ever we need an educated, skilled middle class. I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about cutting funding to universities and schools. What do they think will come of all the people who are now under educated? If more of our population is cut out of four year colleges, what jobs will be available to them? How can they possibly compete on the global market?
I'm not gung-ho about cutting admissions to the colleges. I am gung-ho about increasing education and the appreciation of education by all.

But does it make sense that we pay PhDs (or lecturers with graduate degrees) to reteach high school math and english in the CSUs and UCs??

Take a look in any CSU or UC schedule of courses at the number of sections of remedial math or english being taught. It is a staggering number. Even Cal Poly SLO puts 15 to 20% of its students through remedial courses and it has the toughest admission competition in the CSUs.

It is also a waste of limited resources at the CSUs and UCs. Those same professors and lecturers could be used to teach other courses and electives that now cannot be taught since the faculty time is used on remediation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
You also mentioned putting pressure on high school instructors. Teachers already have too much pressure. We have to worry about state tests, district tests, funding, violence, drugs. You name it. We worry about it. Putting more pressure on teachers is like trying to pour a gallon of water into a glass that is already over flowing.
You are not telling me something I don't know. I have many teachers and administrators in my family and friends.

I know it is tough for high school teachers and I did not say anything different.

But there is a disconnect between what high schools think students need to know to go to college and what professors expect students to know when they arrive on a college campus.

ACT's National Curriculum Survey is just one that brings up the gap in expectations every few years.

In the survey released in 2007, ACT reported that nationwide (not just in California) "College instructors take a dim view of the effectiveness of their state's learning standards. Nearly two-thirds (65%), overall, say their state standards prepare students "poorly" or "very poorly" for college-level work in their subject area. This is quite contrary to what high school teachers believe, with most saying their state standards prepare students "well" or "very well" for college coursework."
New Study Points to Gap Between U.S. High School Curriculum and College Expectations

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
I agree that our children are not getting the proper education. I've talked to seniors in high school who are about to graduate and enter "the real world" and 99% of them have no clue what a recession is, or that we are in one. Most of them have very little critical thinking/reasoning skills, and would much rather talk about American Idol than the state of America that we live in.

The only way out of this mess, is for everyone to pull together. Not say - they should do this, or they should do that. Everyone needs to help one another. So instead of being critical, help out.
I do help, I speak to students, I mentor, I let them know what the "real world" is going to be like. I work with several training programs, do workshops for an internship program, etc.

But didn't I talk about pressure on students AND parents AND high schools? I didn't point a finger at just one.

It appears many high schoolers now expect to go to college, that they feel they are entitled to it.

Maybe if it temporarily becomes tougher to get into college, the opportunity will be appreciated by all once again instead of being taken for granted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:04 PM
 
132 posts, read 378,064 times
Reputation: 91
Given that this article was written about CSU Long Beach, I don't think this is going for all CSUs. I attend American River College in Sacramento and will probably end up at Sacramento State and there hasn't been any discussion or anything related to this at all over the past week. I know this would be huge news since we're the #1 CC to transfer students in to the CSU system.

I'm sure some of the better CSUs like San Diego, Fullerton, San Jose, and whatever others I may be forgetting will just be more stringent on the applicants they let in. I know SDSU recently made all majors impacted instead of the more popular ones like they used to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:05 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 2,932,914 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoFacts View Post
I'm not gung-ho about cutting admissions to the colleges. I am gung-ho about increasing education and the appreciation of education by all.
I think this is a worthy goal, but how do you intend to get to it merely by increasing pressure? I agree that improving education and the appreciation of it - should be something we are striving for. But from my experience increasing pressure does not produce those results. Like I said in my other post - we need to progress. We need to change the way we think about education. The old way is not working.

Based on my experience I think one of the things that needs to be done is that class sizes need to be reduced. 30+ students are too many for one teacher to teach effectively. Will she be able to get through the year? Maybe. Will she teach some standardized crap that will never come in handy? Sure. But will the kids reach their full potential with so little attention and feedback? Probably not.

More tests, more standards. Those have been the easy answers in recent years. So my question is, what are you proposing? You don't have to quote statistics, I know that our education system is in the toilet. But what solutions do you have? Other than reduce CSU admissions?

I'm also curious to know what you view as causing the problem. Its hard to come up with solutions when we don't understand what is wrong. You mentioned a discrepancy between the expectations at the high school level and at the college level. Is this what is wrong? Is it fair to expect all high school grads to be ready for college? I'm sure you would agree, that there are some who deserve to graduate high school that might never be ready for a 4 year college.

I honestly respect your feedback and would like to know what you think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 2,932,914 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by handiquack View Post
Given that this article was written about CSU Long Beach, I don't think this is going for all CSUs. I attend American River College in Sacramento and will probably end up at Sacramento State and there hasn't been any discussion or anything related to this at all over the past week. I know this would be huge news since we're the #1 CC to transfer students in to the CSU system.

I'm sure some of the better CSUs like San Diego, Fullerton, San Jose, and whatever others I may be forgetting will just be more stringent on the applicants they let in. I know SDSU recently made all majors impacted instead of the more popular ones like they used to.
If you look at the CSUMentor website - where you go to apply to CSUs it says that none of the CSUs are accepting apps for spring due to budget cuts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:24 PM
 
132 posts, read 378,064 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
If you look at the CSUMentor website - where you go to apply to CSUs it says that none of the CSUs are accepting apps for spring due to budget cuts.
That's terrible. I just read that. I hope for transfer students they'll be limited who they admit based on GPA since I wouldn't have much of a problem then, but you have to wonder what's going to happen Fall 2010 when I need to transfer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 2,932,914 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by handiquack View Post
That's terrible. I just read that. I hope for transfer students they'll be limited who they admit based on GPA since I wouldn't have much of a problem then, but you have to wonder what's going to happen Fall 2010 when I need to transfer.
I know it sucks. I was planning on applying for Spring for grad school, but it seems now I have to wait. In addition, now I'll be competing with more people for less slots.

With all this happening I think its going to be very hard for the economy to turn itself around. Like I said before, how can we expect a better economy if we are cutting back on education? They're laying off teachers, professors, cutting classes.

I know it seems paranoid, but I am actually considering getting dual citizenship with Canada. I don't think the US is headed in a good direction. Hasn't been for some time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:39 PM
 
132 posts, read 378,064 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizCab44 View Post
I know it sucks. I was planning on applying for Spring for grad school, but it seems now I have to wait. In addition, now I'll be competing with more people for less slots.

With all this happening I think its going to be very hard for the economy to turn itself around. Like I said before, how can we expect a better economy if we are cutting back on education? They're laying off teachers, professors, cutting classes.

I know it seems paranoid, but I am actually considering getting dual citizenship with Canada. I don't think the US is headed in a good direction. Hasn't been for some time.
US citizens can't get dual-citizenship with Canada. However, if you're Canadian, you can get dual-citizenship with the US. If you are granted Canadian citizenship (in today's economy is probably even more hard than when I explored it a few years ago), you have to give up your US. Just how it works.

Makes me wonder if I should consider moving out of-state sooner than I had planned. Not going to school isn't an option for me and I plan on moving anyway - I just wanted to wait until I was done with school in the Spring of 2012.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:47 PM
 
Location: lala land
1,581 posts, read 2,932,914 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by handiquack View Post
US citizens can't get dual-citizenship with Canada. However, if you're Canadian, you can get dual-citizenship with the US. If you are granted Canadian citizenship (in today's economy is probably even more hard than when I explored it a few years ago), you have to give up your US. Just how it works.

Makes me wonder if I should consider moving out of-state sooner than I had planned. Not going to school isn't an option for me and I plan on moving anyway - I just wanted to wait until I was done with school in the Spring of 2012.
No Handi! You have just thrown a massive wrench into my Plan B ! No dual citizenship? Is this a US policy or a Canadian policy?

I think it may be best for you to apply to both out of state and in state colleges, just in case. Despite the cut backs, California might still be easier for you to get into.

Now I am too disappointed about Canadian citizenship to worry about CSUs. Damn it all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top