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Old 07-12-2009, 10:33 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,242,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
You can welcome immigrants while expecting them to support themselves instead of living off the taxpayer.
Thats the way immigration worked for a long time. Now all the "liberal" states have enormous amount of social safety net programs for illegals and their children.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,427,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeInSoCal View Post
I dont see people leaving California to go for Texas. They seem to all go to the Mid west our deep south. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think California will bounce back, but probably very different in gov't. And it seems like its the poor moving and I'm not sure whos replacing them, I guess retirees. California and Texas have about the same amount of Hispanic/Latinos has each other and I would think CA would be more accepting but I see how them being mostly lowerclass here affects it. For a long time people have come here and we've expanded way to big. The huge population is part of the problem in why our gov't is so huge.
I can only offer anecdotal information. Here in the Austin area we have many ex-California residents. Most that I know are in the tech sector. Many tech companies have a sizable presence in both Silicon Valley and Austin - Applied Materials, IBM, Motorola, AMD, etc. Dell has a strong connection to its suppliers such as Intel. Even Apple has a good sized group here.

I believe the people moving from California to Texas are not low income workers. Instead I think they are professionals motivated by the lower cost of living, especially housing. They can position themselves financially for retirement very well by lowering their housing costs significantly.

The immigration issue raised in the Economist article is interesting. I certainly don't hear a strong anti-immigrant sentiment here like I read so much of in the California boards here. I suspect it is because Texas doesn't support them so richly and there is little resentment that they are tapping into other taxpayer's money.

I think illegals here work hard and can afford to live here better than they can elsewhere.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,415 posts, read 25,276,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
They are not speaking about immigrants per se. Texas is much more accepting of it's Mexican culture and heritage than California is. That is part of the reason Texas has such a large Mexican-American middle class while in California they are the underclass. Why is it that Texas doesn't have the immigration problems CA has? That is because immigrants in Texas don't have to scratch out a life in the lowest-income, most gang-infested neighborhoods in their cities. My wife's Mexico-born, elementary-school educated aunt owns her own business and two homes in San Antonio, while my US-born, US-educated sister-in-law rents a shack in the ghetto in California.
Isn't this more a consequence of the differences in the cost of living among CA and TX? I just don't see how your sister-in-law living in a poor area has to do with CA not treating Mexicans as good as Texas does. I guess I could offer my own anecotdal evidence to prove otherwise.My dad, US born and didn't graduate high school, own 2 business and a condo in Hawaii in addition to his home here. A cheaper cost of living will make it easier on the middle class no matter what their race/heritage is imo.

Quote:
Texans living on the border are vehemently AGAINST border fences as they believe that the border is a political boundary and is irrelevant to their lives, whereas Californians have a decidedly different viewpoint.
The two borders are pretty different and not that comparable imo. TX has a much longer border with a lot more border towns than CA does and a more integrated economy/culture. Aside from SD there are not really any other significant border town except Calexico.


CA is maturing and experiencing related problems imo. It seems to be reflecting Northeast states more and more with all of its taxes and regulations. TX is young compared to CA in this sense and there is a good chance it will experiance the same growing pains CA has in the future. From the article:

"To begin with, that lean Texan model has its own problems. It has not invested enough in education, and many experts rightly worry about a “lost generation” of mostly Hispanic Texans with insufficient skills for the demands of the knowledge economy. Now immigration is likely to reconvert Texas from Republican red to Democratic blue; Latinos may justly demand a bigger, more “Californian” state to educate them and provide them with decent health care. But Texas could then end up with the same over-empowered public-sector unions who have helped wreck government in California."

So it will be interesting to see how TX handles its future compared to how CA has.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:16 AM
 
8,259 posts, read 26,242,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Isn't this more a consequence of the differences in the cost of living among CA and TX
Absolutely - but there is a deeper connection. When people can afford to live and thrive, there is lower crime and fewer social problems as a result. That builds a proud and sustaining culture instead of a multi-generational underclass.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,427,880 times
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Quote:
CA is maturing and experiencing related problems imo. It seems to be reflecting Northeast states more and more with all of its taxes and regulations. TX is young compared to CA in this sense and there is a good chance it will experiance the same growing pains CA has in the future.
This is an interesting statement. I think of the glory days of California as the days of the Beach Boys. California was always sunny and the place to be "free." Stereotypical of course but I doubt California's government and policies were so heavy handed then. Maybe the political activism of the late 60s were the beginning of the active government?

Texas isn't exactly young. But Texas has always had a "we're Texas" attitude and comfortable that others didn't understand or like all of Texas. The sense of pride/arrogance/indifference all combines to make Texans happy to not follow the herd.

I believe that Texas pride is still very strong - even if diluted by decades of population growth via relocation from other states. I think some (most?) of the relos grow to like it here the way it is and become new defenders of Texas.

Most Texans don't care that NYC has better "culture." They don't care that Los Angeles has more celebrities. They don't care that San Francisco has better mass transit. We still expect everyone to take care of themselves. And if you don't like it that way don't stay.

There are other barriers to repeating California's mistakes. The part-time legislature. The lack of a state income tax. Etc.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: BK
188 posts, read 830,258 times
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Pretty interesting to here your takes on California vs. Texas immigrant relations. I think it is significant that Mexican culture has been a lot stronger in Texas than here in CA, places like San Antonio have a very entrenched culture. Los Angeles was a majority white (anglo) city not all too long ago, and there aren't really any strong historic ties to its Mexican past. The border culture is interesting too, the Rio Grande Valley and San Diego (outside San Ysidro) are very different demographically and economically, which probably has created much of the tension over illegal immigration in the latter. I was going to state that texas probably has a much larger rural underclass, but at the same time we have places like Imperial County, which likely has a lot of the same challenges.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,677 posts, read 26,620,453 times
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All I know is that I prefer the beaches here in California. Not too sure about Mexican culture in California or Texex other than I am married into it and think that things are just fine here in California. We are resilient in this state and things in time will improve. Saying that I remember the late 1980's and early 1990's when we had a recession, not as bad as this one, but we did survive.
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:11 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,028,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
Texas and Mexico are linked as part of one culture. Whites in Texas accept Mexicans as Texans and tend to ignore illegal / legal distinctions. Texas ranchers cross the border freely and have relationships with Mexican counterparts across the border.

In California that same relationship is a huge element of our class warfare. California STATE may be generous to Mexicans but Calfornia the CULTURE is hardly as welcoming as Texas.
What's interesting is that both California and Texas started out roughly the same. The ranchero culture was in both places. However, California was eventually taken over by Eastern and Midwestern carpetbaggers who never adapted to the ranchero culture. Instead, they overwhelmed it. Therefore, although California is geographically a "southwestern" state it's culturally a blend of the upper Midwest and the Northeast.

Irony - a number of Bay Area suburbs have, over the years, adopted architectural codes. The codes are biased against "tacky red tile roof and stucco construction." Suburbs that used to be grand ranchos, discouraging red tile roofs.
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:17 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 36,480,400 times
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Californians tend to be whiny and apathetic - Texans are proud and pro-active.


Last edited by Lakewooder; 07-13-2009 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:46 PM
 
25,918 posts, read 28,305,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Already, upscale suburbs of Dallas or Houston or Austin cost far more than upscale suburbs of Silicon Valley or NYC (compare land costs); thus, suspect cost equilibration is not far away....
I agree with most of your post, but this last part sounds out of whack. The most desireable parts of Silicon Valley have not dropped in price as much as the dumpy areas or areas on the outskirts.
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