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Old 08-11-2009, 06:12 PM
 
Location: LA County
222 posts, read 187,646 times
Reputation: 48

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A very bright and informed man's opinion.

Mervin Filed Questions California

I read the above with great interest. I recently saw a television program on PBS that dealt with the education system in CA., and it was an eye opener on how Prop. 13 helpd CA. get to where it is today.

The Merrow Report- First to Worst (Special Challenge of Prop 13) (http://www.pbs.org/merrow/tv/ftw/prop13.html - broken link)
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:30 PM
 
193 posts, read 526,871 times
Reputation: 95
There are certainly some opposing views to this myopic POV. I was already a homeowner by '74 and in those days the state thought nothing of creating a budget and then financing it with a property tax increase. To me, that's an irresponsible way of doing business.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,662 posts, read 26,215,764 times
Reputation: 5088
Prop 13 helped distribute the tax load to everyone. Renters do not pay property tax, when more was needed it was added to sales tax.
We now have a sales tax of nearly 10%, but my property tax is only $1300 a year.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:43 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 5,370,179 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
Prop 13 helped distribute the tax load to everyone. Renters do not pay property tax, when more was needed it was added to sales tax.
Renters pay property tax through the amount of the rent, the property owner just passes it along.

But the state gives renters an income tax credit (the Nonrefundable Renter's Credit).
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,692 posts, read 26,668,043 times
Reputation: 20272
This subject comes up from time to time. The majority of people are not participating in the Proposition 13 benefits. To do that you would have needed to keep your home in the family. I know of 3 families on my parents old street that are still original owners. I know of only 2 people at work that are living in homes that they inherited. That is 2 out of close to 2,000 employees. People continue to harp on a long dead horse. The problem is that when you take into count the few people that Prop 13 helps it is far from the number of properties that would hurt our budget or put us in the current financial situation.

Here is what did place us in the current situation.

The state politicos thought like many home buyers that the price of real estate would never fall. Budgets were built on the fact that prices would increase or at least maintain their values. The state, counties, and cities are hurting because they were banking on the money that they would make from taxation.

A solution to all this.

base budgets on last years increase and not next years possible increase. When that happens we know the possible outcomes and can make adjustments for them. When your plan includes the unknown and a differant ourcome arives it kind of blows up in your face at it has in our great state. Since this is a discussion of property tax and not other factors I am leaving out other sources of revenue that the state and other agencies bring in. We could use this same analagy there as well. The economy is not growing but the budget was based on a growing economy. Future success should never be based on prior results.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:05 PM
 
739 posts, read 1,605,372 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretkona View Post
Prop 13 helped distribute the tax load to everyone. Renters do not pay property tax, when more was needed it was added to sales tax.
We now have a sales tax of nearly 10%, but my property tax is only $1300 a year.
Wow, $1,300 a year. Do you have kids in the schools? Do you use the roads in your town? Do you feel secure having police and fire personnel on call 24/7? Have you ever needed an ambulance?

Do you really believe your $1,300 covers all of those services? Do you think it's fair for your new neighbor to move in and have to pay$10,000 a year to cover the services that you utilize?

No wonder CA is in the soup.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:09 PM
 
739 posts, read 1,605,372 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
This subject comes up from time to time. The majority of people are not participating in the Proposition 13 benefits. To do that you would have needed to keep your home in the family. I know of 3 families on my parents old street that are still original owners. I know of only 2 people at work that are living in homes that they inherited. That is 2 out of close to 2,000 employees. People continue to harp on a long dead horse. The problem is that when you take into count the few people that Prop 13 helps it is far from the number of properties that would hurt our budget or put us in the current financial situation.

Here is what did place us in the current situation.

The state politicos thought like many home buyers that the price of real estate would never fall. Budgets were built on the fact that prices would increase or at least maintain their values. The state, counties, and cities are hurting because they were banking on the money that they would make from taxation.

A solution to all this.

base budgets on last years increase and not next years possible increase. When that happens we know the possible outcomes and can make adjustments for them. When your plan includes the unknown and a differant ourcome arives it kind of blows up in your face at it has in our great state. Since this is a discussion of property tax and not other factors I am leaving out other sources of revenue that the state and other agencies bring in. We could use this same analagy there as well. The economy is not growing but the budget was based on a growing economy. Future success should never be based on prior results.
I knew someone who kept his wife's parents house in the family. Their taxes were $700 a year. They put four kids in the local school system. Someone was paying for that and it sure wasn't them.

If the town police, fire or teachers get a raise of 3 percent and your taxes only increase 1 percent, the difference comes from somewhere. Guess who? The ******* who buys a new house in town gets to pay his share and YOURS.

That's fair?
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:17 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 35,879,215 times
Reputation: 7510
You have to look at the big picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
I knew someone who kept his wife's parents house in the family. Their taxes were $700 a year. They put four kids in the local school system. Someone was paying for that and it sure wasn't them.
What about the people who don't have any school age kids? Should they get out of paying property tax? Like it or not, that's how the system works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
If the town police, fire or teachers get a raise of 3 percent and your taxes only increase 1 percent, the difference comes from somewhere. Guess who? The ******* who buys a new house in town gets to pay his share and YOURS.

That's fair?
As long as there's turnover in home ownership, houses are being reassessed and taxed more, in an appreciating market, at least. As long as the overall property tax revenue is keeping up the increasing cost to actually provide the services, there's not a problem.

I do think prop13 should be reworked to even out the tax burden somewhat but there's nothing LESS fair than taxing someone out of their home because someone down the street paid a fortune for a similar house. The value of someone's house is only an estimate of what it could sell for at any given point in time but it's an unrealized gain and as we've seen recently, subject to rapid evaporation. Real estate is the only thing I can think of where unrealized gains are taxed and payable in REAL cash every year.
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:30 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,515,982 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post

Do you really believe your $1,300 covers all of those services? Do you think it's fair for your new neighbor to move in and have to pay$10,000 a year to cover the services that you utilize?

No wonder CA is in the soup.
Actually, not that many people would be paying $10k in property tax. The house would have to be worth about $1 million to pay that amount of tax (generally just above 1%). Here's a chart for state to state comparison (though it seems somewhat inaccurate).

Property taxes: Where does your state rank? - MSN Money
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,692 posts, read 26,668,043 times
Reputation: 20272
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
I knew someone who kept his wife's parents house in the family. Their taxes were $700 a year.
That's fair?
You knew one person? My point to all this. The numbers are minimal of those that are benefiting from Prop 13. Good for those that are paying less. If you had the chance would you pass it up?
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