Define "California Dream" (past and present) (living in, beaches)

[OC Investor2]

Originally Posted by Danoliafoya

Everybody bandies about the "California Dream" --

It's gone... We found it!... We lost it... Eureka!... You gotta go to this part of the state to find it... You can't find it in that part... It'll always be here -- it's California, by God: the beauty, the weather, the diversity... It's no longer possible here; you have to go to X state to find it now. ...

What exactly IS the "California Dream"?

I realize that times change, and thus terms change. So, if you are an old-timer give your take on the "California Dream" that once was in days gone by vis-a-vis the dream (or lack thereof) that currently is, moving forward. If you are a relative newbie or a California Dreamer, give your take on the dream that you currently harbor regarding living there.

Used to be: A land of opportunity and a place for a fresh start. You could build your own life and be judged on your own merits, not by your ethnicity, what high school you went to, your parents station in life, etc. A beautiful place with beautiful weather offering a beautiful life for people of all walks of life

Today: Launch a tech start up, a film career, whatever you can do to secure your spot in the landed gentry that can afford to live here. You can't stay middle income and make it here. You have to either a.)grab the brass ring and enter the upper classes or b.) get engulfed by the rising tide of lower class workers and welfare riders or c.) leave the state.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

The Legislature seems intent on granting your wish....

After having worked with them for 17 years I can swear and affirm that you have spoken the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Yes, thats true for us. California has and always will be home. There is no dreaming necessary, just living the everyday life. With the majority of friends and family here, combined with the mild weather, recreactional, professional, educational and other opportunities there no reason to go east or anywhere else for that matter. And I think it is that way for the majority of Californians, not of course representative of this forum which focusing more on leaving or coming to CA.

As the state with the largest population in the nation it really represents the American story with good weather and I'll add a coastline, the High Sierras, the Redwoods and the desert.

With 36 million ppl you are going to have every kind of story imaginable - from dreams to nightmares but mostly simply living life. For many who still enjoy the state its the best place to be even during rocky times such as these. For others its time to move on and experience life in another part of the country where housing costs are lower and ppl or fewer and further in between. Its not a one size fits all place thats for sure. But it can be an awesome place to live still. I know we are fully enjoying it.

Derek

Well, Derek, I think I can safely speak for many when I say that if we could afford to own a home in Monterey, Pacific Grove or Carmel, we'd never think about leaving.

Having been stationed at Fort Ord way back in the 60s my lasting regret is that I didn't at least purchase some land or, better yet, a house there over 40 years ago. But I was young, headed to war and didn't think that far ahead because I didn't know if there would be one!

[Danoliafoya]

The gist that I am getting from your responses (and responses gleaned in this forum at-large) is this:

1. The major metro areas are cost-prohibitive for raising families in today's California.

2. Indeed, California's major cities are headed toward -- if not already reached -- the outrageous heights of New York City's cost of living and super-crowdedness.

3. The "dream" that might still exist is limited to those in the creative arts, technical fields, and the sciences; even then, the lifestyle might end up being akin to New York-esque perpetual rentership, burning the candle at both ends, and living an extremely pared down existence in order to stay financially viable.

San Diego, Los Angeles & O.C., and the SF Bay Area = the 6th, 7th, and 8th Boroughs of the new New York City-West???

[ehcsrop]

Well, NYC does offer high paying jobs to somewhat offset the COL. Try that theory in the aforementioned Pacific Grove, CA.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by ehcsrop

Well, NYC does offer high paying jobs to somewhat offset the COL. Try that theory in the aforementioned Pacific Grove, CA.

Talk about comparing apples to watermelons. A better comparison might be NYC to LA or SF or some other international city.

If you are simply referring to prices in PG, Monterey and Carmel it is one of the things that keep the population growth near zero. Something which locals have come to enjoy.

But with regards to jobs there are good opportunities in the area for those with in demand skills. And the COLA within certain organizations is the highest in the nation.

Derek

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

After having worked with them for 17 years I can swear and affirm that you have spoken the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!



Well, Derek, I think I can safely speak for many when I say that if we could afford to own a home in Monterey, Pacific Grove or Carmel, we'd never think about leaving.

Having been stationed at Fort Ord way back in the 60s my lasting regret is that I didn't at least purchase some land or, better yet, a house there over 40 years ago. But I was young, headed to war and didn't think that far ahead because I didn't know if there would be one!

Yeah, the ppl who did buy back then definately have no desire to go anywhere. Many invested in multiple properties in the area at rediculous prices. Many were folks who worked for the DLI, NPS or Presidio.

There are still good opportunities for those who find their niches. Of course cheap(er) housing is not one of the options unless one moves further out - Prunedale, Oak Hills, etc...

Derek

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Danoliafoya

The gist that I am getting from your responses (and responses gleaned in this forum at-large) is this:

1. The major metro areas are cost-prohibitive for raising families in today's California.

2. Indeed, California's major cities are headed toward -- if not already reached -- the outrageous heights of New York City's cost of living and super-crowdedness.

3. The "dream" that might still exist is limited to those in the creative arts, technical fields, and the sciences; even then, the lifestyle might end up being akin to New York-esque perpetual rentership, burning the candle at both ends, and living an extremely pared down existence in order to stay financially viable.

San Diego, Los Angeles & O.C., and the SF Bay Area = the 6th, 7th, and 8th Boroughs of the new New York City-West???

It sounds like you are simply confirming your own assumptions based on forum posts. However the big caveat to these assumptions is of course is you must take everything you read on forums such as these with a Huge grain of salt. Since most ppl from CA who are posting are leaving or have left that is the primary perspective you will get.

The one thing I do tend to agree with however is larger cities are too crouded. But there are still some nice areas within the larger counties (outside the cities) for those who find jobs near them. The main complaint by most is related the cost of housing. But CA RE has always been more expensive than the rest of the nation especially in the most desirable locations.

I will add there is a less of a mystique about CA now for those who have always dreamed of coming here, which I think is good. It is not perfect like anywhere with its own share of problems. Its a huge state with a lot of raw potential depending on where one looks. But if there isn't any particular reason for moving here like a strong draw for family, friends, job, climate, etc... it is probably better to move to another state.

My 2c,

Derek

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Yeah, the ppl who did buy back then definately have no desire to go anywhere. Many invested in multiple properties in the area at rediculous prices. Many were folks who worked for the DLI, NPS or Presidio.

But the thought occurs that I would have likely lost in in divorce in 1995 anyway so it becomes a big Oh Well!

[Quatermass]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

Right on.

And the ocean is still here ... the mountains ... redwoods ... desert .... nature is still here.

Amen to that -- I really got tired of there being no nature beyond the borders of the state of California. No hills, no grass, no swamps, no forests, no mountains, no lakes, no rivers, no beaches, nothin'!

I mean, seriously, it's horrific! The entire rest of the United States is just one big vast expanse of solid concrete from the Rockies all the way to the Atlantic! There isn't anything out there! I got so depressed living in Not-California that at one point I wanted to hang myself, except that there aren't any trees! Thank goodness I live here now!

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

Today: Launch a tech start up, a film career, whatever you can do to secure your spot in the landed gentry that can afford to live here. You can't stay middle income and make it here. You have to either a.)grab the brass ring and enter the upper classes or b.) get engulfed by the rising tide of lower class workers and welfare riders or c.) leave the state.

Yep.

Exactly.