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Old 09-03-2009, 11:18 PM
 
703 posts, read 1,076,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
This would make a big difference but it would also drive up rents.
Not directly. Rents are set at what the market will bear, which has no relation to the landlord's costs. What business would go bankrupt if it could simply raise prices because its costs went up?

What will happen if property taxes are jacked up on rental properties is (a) huge chunks of value will be taken out of them if they stay rentals, so (b) some will be converted to ownership. The lower supply of rental units will put upward pressure on residential rents and further squeeze the lower and working classes. Not that it will matter, higher taxes on commercial property mean more businesses will shut down or leave California, leaving said lower and working class people out of a job.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Earth
12,012 posts, read 13,539,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
I haven't heard of such a thing but I can't imagine it has a hope of passing.
I thought Prop 8 would have no hope of passing, unfortunately I was wrong. So you never know.

However, if an initiative to repeal 13 makes the ballot, I'll vote for it in a heartbeat. I suspect many others will too.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:06 AM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,430,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
I think the right idea is that Prop 13 apply only to a persons primary residence. There are far too many rental properties paying tax rates from the 1970s
When Prop 13 passed many renters received rent reductions... a family member and one of my teachers had rent reductions.

I guess one way to drive up rents... especially in rent controlled areas would be to eliminate Prop 13 protection from non-owner occupied property... rent control statutes I'm familiar with have a pass through feature for property tax and one theory is rent control actually came into being in response to Prop 13
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:09 AM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,430,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Washington never has budget problems and they always pass their budgets on time unlike California, even though they're just as liberal. I think that California might learn from Washington and Texas - do away with the income tax and jack property taxes high enough to prevent another RE bubble.

BTW have you heard anything about the initiative to repeal Prop 13 on the 2010 ballot? I heard something about this but I can't find much info.
Washington is also experiencing a Real Estate Bubble...

Maybe we should follow the Western European System... extremely low property tax and high sales taxes and income tax
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:12 AM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,430,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
Not directly. Rents are set at what the market will bear, which has no relation to the landlord's costs. What business would go bankrupt if it could simply raise prices because its costs went up?

What will happen if property taxes are jacked up on rental properties is (a) huge chunks of value will be taken out of them if they stay rentals, so (b) some will be converted to ownership. The lower supply of rental units will put upward pressure on residential rents and further squeeze the lower and working classes. Not that it will matter, higher taxes on commercial property mean more businesses will shut down or leave California, leaving said lower and working class people out of a job.
Rent is not set at what the Market will bear in Rent Controlled Jurisdictions and landlord costs... such as increased Property Tax is a valid basis to appeal rent increase limitations... at least in the CA cities with Rent Control I work with.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:15 AM
 
Location: LB/OC for now...
5,112 posts, read 12,145,237 times
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Prop 13 will never be repealed without a massive restructuring of income and sales taxes. Otherwise, tax burdens would be extremely high. CA already has one of the highest cumulative tax burdens in the US

Quote:
Washington never has budget problems and they always pass their budgets on time unlike California, even though they're just as liberal. I think that California might learn from Washington and Texas - do away with the income tax and jack property taxes high enough to prevent another RE bubble.
Washington also isn't even close to being the first most populous state in the nation. 30 million more people live here than in Washington. We also have estimates of at least 3million illegals in state, which is half the population of the state of Washington in itself.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Earth
12,012 posts, read 13,539,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Washington is also experiencing a Real Estate Bubble...
Washington doesn't have budget problems like California.

"WE IN Washington state “get our business done”, says Lisa Brown, a Democrat who leads the state’s Senate and may be a future candidate for governor. In contrast to California, say, Washington passes its budgets on time."

Primaries in Washington state: The centrist north-west | The Economist

The reason why Seattle is an expensive city is because people want to live there and it is considered a desirable place to be - the same reason why San Francisco's property values haven't fallen as much as the rest of the state. Because WA's political system is functional, it has avoided fiscal crisis, and has more sensible laws regarding taxation, WA is more attractive to business. When the recession ends WA will be the first Western state to recover.

Quote:
Maybe we should follow the Western European System... extremely low property tax and high sales taxes and income tax
That's the system that's put us into the crapper, just like it's put Italy into the crapper. Arnold as Silvio Berlusconi? (Although I don't know how Californians would tolerate a CA politician behaving in public like the Italian president, there have been moralizers who've condemned the private lives of Newsom and Villaraigosa and compared to Silvio both mayors seem like celibate monks...)
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:47 AM
Status: "All I wanted was a Pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: West Los Angeles
3,881 posts, read 3,260,461 times
Reputation: 4070
Let us first rid California of all the people receiving taxpayer funded services who have no legal right to those services. Then, and only then, let us begin debating alleged "inequities" via Prop 13.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Northern California
3,480 posts, read 9,181,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
You now understand one of the major reasons California is essentially bankrupt.
California still has one of the highest tax burdens in the US (about 5th or 6th out of 50 states). Where does all this money go? How do other states with lower taxes - and in some cases no state income tax (WA, NV, TX and others) or some other states with no sales tax - get along without going bankrupt ?
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Earth
12,012 posts, read 13,539,025 times
Reputation: 4126
Quote:
Originally Posted by humboldtrat View Post
California still has one of the highest tax burdens in the US (about 5th or 6th out of 50 states). Where does all this money go? How do other states with lower taxes - and in some cases no state income tax (WA, NV, TX and others) or some other states with no sales tax - get along without going bankrupt ?
NV is going bankrupt too and is in the same predicament as California. There just aren't as many people there.

OR, which has no sales tax, is also going through a budget crisis although not at CA or NV levels.

As for how Washington manages to get along, read the link I posted earlier in the thread.
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