California banning big screen TV (water heater, buy, school)

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

The problem with people like you is that there's absolutely no limit to the parts of everyone else's lives you'll stick your nose into. You tell me what kind of car to drive and what color it can be. You tell me what kind of light bulbs I can use. You tell me what kind of TV I can watch. You tell me how big my home can be and how warm or cool it can be. You tell me how much water my toilet can use. Enough already.

Your freedoms end at the tip of my nose. If you Hummer raises CO2 levels, the price of gas...then that affects me. If you McMansion in Indio consumes so much water that your lawn is as green as the Emerald Isles even though it's the middle of July and thus lowers the water table even more...that affects me (we are in a drought in CA). If the Artic is warmer than your McMansion in Indio, thus raising electricity rates and also emitting CO2 and also smoke increasing smog...that affects me. I think you see my point.

We are all in this together.

If you can make a Hummer that gets even 25 MPG (or get hybrid Escape...or fuel up with ethanol) ...than that's great. If you plant drought resistant plants in your home...awesome. If you can have energy efficient air conditioning or even power your home with solar (or just keep the house a little warmer)...that would be cool. Your way of life doesn't have to change so dramatically, but it shouldn't also have to affect mine.

[coyoteskye]

Originally Posted by Clarks

Coyoteskye, I am going to try a psychic name association; does this mean anything to you; Brian Smart, Wagon Train Cafe?

Not off the top of my psyche, no.
Please do tell though.

[Clarks]

I saw you were born in Truckee, you must have left young. He owns the cafe on Commercial Row, I figured you might have been familiar with it, he, and would say, "my golly that Clarks is psychic!"

[f_m]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

A plasma screen uses about 33% more power than an equivalent siized LCD that uses a CCFL backlight. I don't know what the power savings of using a LED vs. CCFL backlight is right now but considering the cost difference, many will not be willing to buy one now anyways.

If someone has their LCD running in torch mode it might even use more power than a properly setup plasma.

Depends on the model. According to Vizio's 42" spec. it averages ~150W (Sony models may be more). Plasma at 42" is around 300W+. Running LCD with CCFL on high brightness isn't going to look that good. I probably should have said, generally 50% or more.

VIZIO 42" LCD HDTV | VIZIO

These appear to be approximate, as what I've measured doesn't match that close to what's in the table for the TV I have.
http://reviews.cnet.com/green-tech/tv-power-efficiency/

[coyoteskye]

Let me ask this again as i haven't received a response.
How do you suggest we deal with the environmental crisis without government intervention at this point in our history when people are still so unconscious and selfish and so uncaring and unwilling or unable (or both) to be responsible in their consumption on this planet of limited natural resources?
Like i said in a previous post, the true and pure republicanism would be ideal (as long as government is needed) if people were able to act with care and compassion for their fellow humans and for the planet (and all of its inhabitants).
But regulations are needed as long as the majority of people are asleep at the wheel .... and they are.
Tick tock .. you think this can go on for much longer?
Look around.
I don't understand the lack of concern and the arrogant stubbornness that will not acknowledge that we are indeed all in this together and we need to take care of the planet and each other.
If you think freedom is doing whatever the hell you want without concern for consequences to others and to the planet (the planet that sustains you!) then you hold to and support a pseudo and illusory idea of what true freedom is about.

[coyoteskye]

Originally Posted by Clarks

I saw you were born in Truckee, you must have left young. He owns the cafe on Commercial Row, I figured you might have been familiar with it, he, and would say, "my golly that Clarks is psychic!"

Ah, i see.
Yes, i did leave Truckee at a young age.
Thank you though.

[Clarks]

Hakuna Matata

Ok, a quick abstract of Garrett Hardin's, The Tragedy of the Commons. This provides an excellent answer to those who think that no one should interfere with their right to consume resources. If, after one reads The Tragedy of the Commons, and still thinks no one should interfere with their right to consume resources, then that person should remove him/her self from interaction with society IMHO.

The tragedy of the commons refers to a dilemma described in an influential article by that name written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1] The article describes a dilemma in which multiple individuals acting independently and solely and rationally consulting their own self-interest will ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen.[2]

[f_m]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

How do you suggest we deal with the environmental crisis without government intervention at this point in our history when people are still so unconscious and selfish and so uncaring and unwilling or unable (or both) to be responsible in their consumption on this planet of limited natural resources?

If you want to limit consumption, then you increase the cost of consumption of resources. A TV that is not used is not a high power consumption item. So if someone uses a TV only periodically, even if it uses more than average power, their consumption is still less than someone using an "efficient" TV all the time. So it isn't the TV, it's the electricity that's really the issue.

[coyoteskye]

Originally Posted by f_m

If you want to limit consumption, then you increase the cost of consumption of resources. A TV that is not used is not a high power consumption item. So if someone uses a TV only periodically, even if it uses more than average power, their consumption is still less than someone using an "efficient" TV all the time. So it isn't the TV, it's the electricity that's really the issue.

I was asking a broader questions but yeah, that makes sense.
So i guess then that the government will have to monitor and regulate everyone's electricity use. (kidding ... really)

[f_m]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

I was asking a broader questions but yeah, that makes sense.
So i guess then that the government will have to monitor and regulate everyone's electricity use. (kidding ... really)

Well, water and electric, etc... are all paid for based on usage. I'm sure I pay more for water/sewer than electricity, so I have more incentive to save water than electricity, not that I waste electricity.