What's Happened to California??? (San Francisco, Sacramento: transfer, neighborhood, camp)

[Dean Trails]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Why is doubling any tax a good idea?

Californians already pay a premium to operate vehicles in this State...

And, i might add, a tax takes money out of the pocket of a working individual that might have spent it on goods and services to help to improve the economy.

Taxes are a lot like Vampires, they drain the life force from the living!!!

[bentstrider]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Why is doubling any tax a good idea?

Californians already pay a premium to operate vehicles in this State...

Well, if services aren't improved and pocket-lining is all that comes about, then maybe not.

Perhaps instead of high-registration fees, how about more toll-roads implemented instead?

[Screw Sacramento]

Originally Posted by Dean Trails

And, i might add, a tax takes money out of the pocket of a working individual that might have spent it on goods and services to help to improve the economy.

Taxes are a lot like Vampires, they drain the life force from the living!!!

Right. We can only raise taxes to a certain point until they become counterproductive. I think California has reached that point. When there is almost a $1000 disparity between what you make (gross) and what you take home (net) a salary of $30,000 takes on an entirely different meaning. Middle-low class all of a sudden becomes poverty level. And yes, this does make it difficult to "stimulate the economy". During times like these, our family stays indoors, buckles down, and eats ramen.

[Dean Trails]

Originally Posted by Screw Sacramento

During times like these, our family stays indoors, buckles down, and eats ramen.

You get ramen????? I am jealous!

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by chacho_keva

Over the course of living in California for 30 years, I've met many illegal immigrants predominantly from Mexico. Many seem to want the benefits afforded to U.S. Citizens without paying the price of assimilation. Because assimilation seems to be a non-issue, the impression one gets is that many are content with surviving within their immediate sub-culture.

Staying within their sub-culture automatically lessens a person's need to assimilate by way of learning the language and being knowledgeable of the host nation's history and idiosyncracies. Learning the local language, knowing the history and idiosyncracies of the land requires a little head work. And that seems to be where many throw their arms up. If these could be obtained by physical labor many of our illegal immigrants would likely rise out of their immediate sub-culture.

Growing up in Northern CA (San Jose area mostly) and living there for nearly 30 years, I find this statement to be a little exaggerated. Most of the immigrants I knew from Mexico appeared to be no more or less proud of their heritage than immigrants from anywhere else. If anything, it could be the large percentage of Mexican immigrants in certain regions that might give one the feeling that they are trying harder to retain their "Mexican" heritage than other groups. But individually, they seem no different than any other groups that have immigrated to the U.S.. Go to any part of the nation that has large immigrant populations (like parts of NY where the Italian culture is significant or Miami where Cubans make up a large percentage of the population) and you'll notice a similar situation (people flying their native flags, speaking their native language, communities full of restaurants and stores that reflect their heritage). The only difference would be the percentage of the population really.

As for the illegal immigrants seemingly wanting all the benefits citizens get without having to assimilate... is their failure to learn the language and assimilate a result of them refusing to do so, or more a product of them keeping to themselves and residing in communities that speak mostly Spanish in an effort to stay under the radar for fear of being noticed, and maybe deported? Seems to me most immigrants, legal or not, tend to be more comfortable in communities that are made up of cultures similar to their own.

You get the sense that some Americans feel that immigrants owe them the courtesy of assimilating. They are disgusted when they overhear Spanish being spoken in public. They feel that the definition of "American" revolves around their lifestyle and background. They complain about immigrants seeming to feel entitlement when they themselves give off a sense of entitlement and nobility simply because they were born in the United States. It just seems a little arrogant and hypocritical sometimes. You don't really get the sense that people put much thought into the fact that this nation is a product of immigration.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for immigrants learning to speak English and adopting popular American culture. But I also like the fact that this country allows us all the freedom to speak whatever language we want wherever we want. And I truly enjoy being exposed to all the cultures that make America the melting pot that it is.

[Screw Sacramento]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

As for the illegal immigrants seemingly wanting all the benefits citizens get without having to assimilate... is their failure to learn the language and assimilate a result of them refusing to do so, or more a product of them keeping to themselves and residing in communities that speak mostly Spanish in an effort to stay under the radar for fear of being noticed, and maybe deported? Seems to me most immigrants, legal or not, tend to be more comfortable in communities that are made up of cultures similar to their own.

You get the sense that some Americans feel that immigrants owe them the courtesy of assimilating. They are disgusted when they overhear Spanish being spoken in public. They feel that the definition of "American" revolves around their lifestyle and background. They complain about immigrants seeming to feel entitlement when they themselves give off a sense of entitlement and nobility simply because they were born in the United States. It just seems a little arrogant and hypocritical sometimes. You don't really get the sense that people put much thought into the fact that this nation is a product of immigration.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for immigrants learning to speak English and adopting popular American culture. But I also like the fact that this country allows us all the freedom to speak whatever language we want wherever we want. And I truly enjoy being exposed to all the cultures that make America the melting pot that it is.

I don't know about flying under the radar; one incident about a year ago that particularly offended me was a pro-Mexico rally in Woodland, CA (a predominantly hispanic town) where they were flying the Mexican flag and hanging the American flag upside down.

As far as assimilation, it just seems to make the most sense that someone should have the responsibility of adapting to where they're going, not the other way around. If I moved to Russia, first thing I would probably do is study Russian and buy a translator, not expect all the Russian businessmen I interacted with to learn English. Yet with every California phone menu I have to listen to it twice as long because it's also in Spanish.

The Mexicans so many people complain about are wanting to come to the United States (via California)--we're not wanting to emigrate there. If they really want to leave their homeland and have the citizenship badly enough I think they should put a reasonable assimilative effort into it.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by Screw Sacramento

I don't know about flying under the radar; one incident about a year ago that particularly offended me was a pro-Mexico rally in Woodland, CA (a predominantly hispanic town) where they were flying the Mexican flag and hanging the American flag upside down.

And that's obviously a little infuriating. But you can't just assume that all Mexicans have that attitude or agree with that type of rally. And you have to wonder what led to that type of rally in the first place. The context is pretty important. I'm not saying it was justified, but I've seen some legal immigrants treated (and talked about) pretty badly due to all of the illegal immigration outrage. Most of the illegal immigrants that I knew of kept a pretty low profile and actually spoke pretty decent English.

I know it bothered me a little to see Mexican flags on July 4th. But I noticed that most of the time it was American citizens of Mexican descent doing that. Sometimes people feel the need to show how proud they are of their ancestry, even if it's a little inappropriate.

Originally Posted by Screw Sacramento

As far as assimilation, it just seems to make the most sense that someone should have the responsibility of adapting to where they're going, not the other way around. If I moved to Russia, first thing I would probably do is study Russian and buy a translator, not expect all the Russian businessmen I interacted with to learn English. Yet with every California phone menu I have to listen to it twice as long because it's also in Spanish.

Are menus in Spanish because Mexicans refuse to assimilate or because businesses are trying to attract/invite more customers - expanding their customer base? I can see the complaints about public services (like Driver's license documents) being available in several different languages. But even if everyone learned English, businesses would still look for ways to be welcoming to more people. And even if immigrants worked harder to learn English, there would still be a transition period where they would understand more in their native language than in English.

Originally Posted by Screw Sacramento

The Mexicans so many people complain about are wanting to come to the United States (via California)--we're not wanting to emigrate there. If they really want to leave their homeland and have the citizenship badly enough I think they should put a reasonable assimilative effort into it.

And that's a valid opinion. But again, it's still their choice to do so. If you moved to Russia and found that there were a number of Russians who spoke English, how important would it really be for you to learn Russian if you didn't really need to for daily life? Would you do it anyway just as a courtesy to all Russians? Or would you just learn enough to get by?

[Clarks]

There is a big immigration problem that has been growing year after year. An increasing number of American citizens are moving to Mexico, and some of them are even becoming undocumented workers. Even worse, they are refusing to assimilate and are even insisting on retaining their U.S. citizenship. Six years ago, on February 5, 2001, in an article entitled “American Retirees Flock to a ‘Paradise’ in Mexico,” the Washington Post reported that in the small Mexican town of Anjijic, where 7,500 Americans lived, there was a banner just past the Gringo Grill that in English read, “Welcome to your new home.” Bringing their culture to Mexico, the Americans in Anjijic were organizing gardening classes and Sunday morning walking clubs. The Lake Chapala Society had a library containing 20,000 books — in English — and an English-language theater. The Super Lake market carried rye bread and every type of Betty Crocker cake mix. Restaurant menus in town were changing from enchiladas to waffles for breakfast. Most of the people at Donas Donuts were Americans, discussing U.S. political issues, presumably in English.
Since then the problem has only intensified. That 2001 article reported that the U.S. Embassy estimated that 600,000 Americans were living in Mexico. Today, Wikipedia puts the number at one million.
The assimilation problem hasn’t gotten any better either. In a recent article entitled “Illegal Gringos,” the Los Angeles Times reported that San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, has many retired baby boomers moving into town, a number of whom are performing work without a permit or license. It’s obvious that they’re not even bothering to learn Spanish because there is an expatriate newspaper oriented toward them that is written in English. Yes, you read that right — a local English-language newspaper in the heart of Mexico for Americans living there!
There are undoubtedly some people who are condemning all this as something despicable, perhaps even immoral. “I think it’s horrible that they’ve retained allegiance to the United States,” they no doubt are saying. “They should become Mexican citizens. Why aren’t they assimilating? Why aren’t they learning Spanish? They’re taking jobs away from Mexicans. They’re still flying the American flag, and they’re singing the Star Spangled Banner. They’re celebrating the Fourth of July more than the Cinco de Mayo. Worst of all, they’re actually rooting for American sports teams rather than Mexican ones. Something needs to be done about these people!”
I say, leave those Americans alone. Why shouldn’t they be free to live in Mexico any way they want? If they want to associate only with other Americans, why shouldn’t they be free to do so? Why should they be required to give up their American citizenship just because they’re living in Mexico? Sure, it might be a good idea for them to learn Spanish, but shouldn’t this be left up to them? And yes, some of them are working illegally, but who cares? Aren’t they providing services that people are willing to pay for and that are improving people’s lives? And so what if they’re still flying the American flag, singing the Star Spangled Banner, and celebrating the Fourth of July? Who are they hurting? And does it really matter that they’re rooting for American sports teams instead of Mexican ones?
Leave Americans in Mexico be. Let them pursue happiness in their own way. Isn’t that what freedom is all about?

....

[Melissa E]

From an outsiders point of view I don't know how the heck anyone affords it there!? How could the average person ever have a nice home at those costs? I don't think the weather or anything else would really be worth those outrageous prices. Plus all the fires and stuff; it just really doesn't seem worth it to live there.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Melissa E

From an outsiders point of view I don't know how the heck anyone affords it there!? How could the average person ever have a nice home at those costs? I don't think the weather or anything else would really be worth those outrageous prices. Plus all the fires and stuff; it just really doesn't seem worth it to live there.

Apologists and rabid defenders notwithstanding, it isn't!

As always, just one man's opinion!