Love/Hate for California (San Diego, Sacramento: bankruptcy, schools, colleges)

[WeakandDizzy]

Originally Posted by ringwise

Of course - let's throw folks that have bought and paid for their houses out into the street.

Typical lib - bound and determined to control every aspect of society, based on their particular version of what is right and wrong.

Your calling me lib? I want to control society? Surely you jest. I put three kids through college, one to an EXPENSIVE east coast school on my own dime ( not one cent of student aid or loans- CASH), I pay my taxes every year. As a matter of fact I pay more in taxes than most Americans earn in a year. Ever heard of or PAID alternative minimum tax?? Why is asking for EVERY homeowner to pay the SAME property tax rate as their neighbor liberal?? When I lived in California ( yes I am a native of that great state to which I hope to return to someday) I payed $1600/yr in property tax while my neighbor paid $200/yr. Did we use different city/county/state services?? NO. Why make one set of residents " more worthy" than another? Personally I favor a flat tax, based on consumption, that way I don't have to keep carrying the majority of the rest of you.

[Clarks]

Typical lib - bound and determined to control every aspect of society, based on their particular version of what is right and wrong.

Huh, it is the modern version of the Conservative that is all wound up on social issues. The word Liberal, means, in latin, of Freedom. It is good to keep that in mind. Liberal means to be in favor of Freedom.

Conservative, used to mean conserve, now it just means "cling to what has proven not to work".

[EscapeCalifornia]

Make the oldsters liable for the full property tax but after retirement, defer most of it until death and do not allow the low tax basis to pass down to the next generation.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by WeakandDizzy

I believe it is efficient to provide a means to keep people in their homes... Prop 13 does this.

How is it efficient to keep retirees living in the homes that are needed by working families? It contributes to urban sprawl. Workforce housing is more expensive due to the lack of availability ( my retired relatives should be living in Palm Springs, Monterey or Auburn/Grass Valley, etc. rather than in the middle of Silicon Valley) and so working families search outward until they can find suitable housing that reasonably meets their needs at a price they can afford. We subsequently have impacted freeways from distant commuters and more air pollution. I don't mean to imply that prop 13 is the CAUSE of all these evils, however it does contribute to the problem. Prop 13 protects older residents from the whims of the local tax collector at the expense of younger residents. It's funny that people want to be protected from excessive property taxation while they live on that same property, but don't want anyone preventing them from realizing a huge gain due to appreciation on that same property when it comes time to sell it. It seems as if we all want our cake and eat it too. The question of how wise our tax dollars are being used is another matter altogether.

First... Proposition 13 applies to all taxable Real Property in the State... doesn't matter if you bought 30 years ago or last week.

Every property owner is treated the same under Prop 13... Prop 13 limits the automatic yearly increase and provides the mechanism to override the limit.

Voters in my City and County have approved increases of nearly 50% above Prop 13 limits... my rate is 1.44% last I checked.

Taxation of gains due to appreciation has zero to do with Prop 13... Prop 13 is a California State Law and has zero effect of Federal Tax Laws.

It's only fair for those coming into the community to pay their fair share if they choose to buy... just how do you think the infrastructure was built in the first place?

Long term Home Owners are exactly why I bought in the neighborhood I did... they make it the place where I want to live...

Schools are the largest single expense in most cases... just how many kids does your typical 60 year old couple have in school anyway?

I pay the highest tax in my area because I bought at the peak of the market... the seller was paying $1200 a year and I pay nearly $9000... Far from my angry, resentful or walking around with a chip on my shoulder... I fully intend to be paying one of the lower rates looking ahead 30 years...

The point is... I had the choice to buy or not buy, fully knowing my property tax obligation thanks to Prop 13...

I'm thankful the voters that came before my had the foresight to make Prop 13 Law...

As an aside... Prop 13 would have NEVER come into existence if the Sacramento would have simply indexed the Home Owner exemption to inflation... Politicians gladly left it to the voters and the voters spoke loud and clear...

[WeakandDizzy]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

First... Proposition 13 applies to all taxable Real Property in the State... doesn't matter if you bought 30 years ago or last week.

Every property owner is treated the same under Prop 13... Prop 13 limits the automatic yearly increase and provides the mechanism to override the limit.

Voters in my City and County have approved increases of nearly 50% above Prop 13 limits... my rate is 1.44% last I checked.

Taxation of gains due to appreciation has zero to do with Prop 13... Prop 13 is a California State Law and has zero effect of Federal Tax Laws.

It's only fair for those coming into the community to pay their fair share if they choose to buy... just how do you think the infrastructure was built in the first place?

Long term Home Owners are exactly why I bought in the neighborhood I did... they make it the place where I want to live...

Schools are the largest single expense in most cases... just how many kids does your typical 60 year old couple have in school anyway?

I pay the highest tax in my area because I bought at the peak of the market... the seller was paying $1200 a year and I pay nearly $9000... Far from my angry, resentful or walking around with a chip on my shoulder... I fully intend to be paying one of the lower rates looking ahead 30 years...

The point is... I had the choice to buy or not buy, fully knowing my property tax obligation thanks to Prop 13...

I'm thankful the voters that came before my had the foresight to make Prop 13 Law...

As an aside... Prop 13 would have NEVER come into existence if the Sacramento would have simply indexed the Home Owner exemption to inflation... Politicians gladly left it to the voters and the voters spoke loud and clear...

This will be my last comment about Prop 13. Clearly this is a highly popular initiative with homeowners in the state. I will benefit from it as well when my parents and in laws die. I understand that people were being taxed out of their homes prior to its institution. 60 year olds benefit from good schools because educated people are less likely to break in your house or beat you up in the parking lot of the grocery store while they steal your purse. Educated individuals are generally more economically productive and they are the ones that fund the 65 plus year old crowd's social security payments. Prop 13 is one of the third rails of California, you touch it at your peril. Peace.

[WeakandDizzy]

Prop 13 is one of the third rails of California politics,...

[Ludachris]

I don't dispute the idea that Prop 13 helps homeowners and is beneficial in many cases. I just question whether it goes a little too far in its rewards for those who choose not to move out of a home at the expense of others. It just seems like there is almost too much reward for staying in the same home for a longer period of time. And I really think the commercial property owner benefits of the proposition hurt the state more than they help. That's just my opinion though.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

Make the oldsters liable for the full property tax but after retirement, defer most of it until death and do not allow the low tax basis to pass down to the next generation.

I like the idea of not passing it on to the next generation. It shouldn't be a gift that keeps on giving.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

I like the idea of not passing it on to the next generation. It shouldn't be a gift that keeps on giving.

Prop 13 has NO carry forward provision...

Prop 58 does provide property to transfer between parent/child in some cases without reassessment... Prop 58 does not reference Prop 13.

A big beneficiary of Prop 13 is California's Farmers... many were forced from Farming because of ever increasing Property Taxes made farming unsustainable...

Prop 58 has preserved countless small farms through-out the State by letting the land pass from one generation to the next.

Prop 13 is often confused with other State Props... one of the beauties of Prop 13 is it's simplicity...

It is worth noting, The U.S. Supreme Court declared in Nordlinger v. Hahn that Proposition 13 is constitutional.

There are positive and negatives with anything... just my 2 cents

[Helena58]

I moved to California in 2000, left to go to Idaho in 2005 and now am doing everything I can to move back to California. No place is perfect, but I miss the weather and the opportunities to do so many outdoor type things. Yes, the outdoor activities are here in Idaho too, but the mentality of the people is difficult to tolerate. I left CA mostly because I worked with a bunch of *******, but I've learned you have to deal with idiots everywhere - might as well have nice weather while doing it.