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Old 12-28-2009, 02:19 PM
 
13,521 posts, read 24,697,604 times
Reputation: 7809
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
Neither the governor, nor Democrats in the legislature are to blame for this crisis. There's very little that the governor can do. Democrats try to fix things to the extent that they can, but stubborn opposition of Republican minority means that their efforts are in vain. Furthermore, right-wing lies spread by the Republicans (such as all that nonsense about "spending addiction" - what addiction? Last I checked, state's real per capita spending has been flat for the last 10 years), make it more difficult to achieve meaningful reforms.

But I can't say that I blame right-wing nuts in the legislature above all. There's one person who's single-handedly to blame for most of the mess we're in. The person whose actions made the state budget so dysfunctional and susceptible to massive deficits during recessions. Unfortunately, he died more than twenty years ago and he died without even knowing the extent of damage his actions caused. His name is Howard Jarvis.
Howard Jarvis is one man... not even a politician.

Prop 13 is the response to a dysfunctional State System... a response that was and is still supported be a majority of voters.

Prop 13 added predictability to Property Tax Revenue... Prop 13 eliminated the corruption that sent several Tax Assessors to prison and one that committed suicide for the sweetheart deals given to those of influence.

Californians already pay plenty in taxes...

Just a reminder... the State Goverment at the time Prop 13 was put on the Ballot was all too happy to pass the tar-baby to the voters and the voters answered the call...
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Windermere, FL
267 posts, read 554,494 times
Reputation: 131
No one can fix this mess...we have to redo the whole political system in the this state. Not to mention pointless state departments like CalTrans! The State needs to privatize some of these departments!
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:02 PM
 
5,468 posts, read 7,784,766 times
Reputation: 1444
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez View Post
Hopefully in future elections we can vote out these clowns.
Yeah! Let's vote out these clowns so we can vote in some new clowns! And then we can pay more state pensions to the new clowns who are just as bad as the old clowns!

Sounds like a winning formula to me!
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
25,255 posts, read 14,720,067 times
Reputation: 6466
The majority of Californians never seem to be happy with their elected officials. I say too bad. The majority elected them; deal with it. If you can do a better job, then run for office yourself. Otherwise, better luck next time around. There will always be another election.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Bryte, CA
1,961 posts, read 2,658,570 times
Reputation: 1304
I don't think it is fair to call it ineptitude. Schwarzenegger had some very good intentions. Once he got into office he quickly found out the Democratic majority was going to refuse to play ball because they were butthurt after the voters washed their hands of the Grey Davis mess. A lot of what we saw the last several years was due to the frustration of trying to work with these clowns.

The best thing the voters can do at this point is clean house during the next election. That is the only way things are going to change.

As far as stabilizing the financial mess, not enough people are paying taxes. A change in taxes is needed that will make the deadbeats pay something into the system. The only way I can think of doing this is an increase in the sales tax. This will force the "poor people" who never seem to have enough money to support themselves, but always have just enough for a new iPod to pay something into the system. iPods are optional when it comes to survival, so this isn't a hardship on the poor. A reduction/elimination of some of the ridiculous fees we pay in other areas will compensate for the increase in sales taxes for the rest of us.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:45 AM
 
268 posts, read 442,787 times
Reputation: 170
The biggest problem in California is the voters. They passed a bunch of bonds with no mechanism to pay for them. It's nice to have lots of prisons, new schools, wider freeways, water plants and parks but you have to pay for that stuff. For every bond to do the neato stuff there should have been a specific tax with a hard figure every one could see. You want x prisons, here is what extra tax you will pay. More cops, pay this much.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,731 posts, read 15,366,458 times
Reputation: 16576
As long as the voters continue to pass categorical spending initiatives the hands of government will be fiscally tied no matter what party is in the driver's seat.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:39 AM
 
13,521 posts, read 24,697,604 times
Reputation: 7809
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp killer View Post
The biggest problem in California is the voters. They passed a bunch of bonds with no mechanism to pay for them. It's nice to have lots of prisons, new schools, wider freeways, water plants and parks but you have to pay for that stuff. For every bond to do the neato stuff there should have been a specific tax with a hard figure every one could see. You want x prisons, here is what extra tax you will pay. More cops, pay this much.
Very true in some areas...

Another problem is taking funds specifically allocated for one purpose and using it for another... The Gasoline Tax sole purpose when "Sold" to the voters was highways... not anymore.

The voters in my City passed special assessments to specifically fund x number of police officers... audits show money often get diverted...
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: UK
296 posts, read 525,326 times
Reputation: 299
It was bound to to belly up in Calif - tons of people moving in from other states and the cost of living continually going up and up. Companies started to move to other states so they didn't have to pay such high wages. Eventually, one is left with a few rich people and a ton of poorer folks, many on state benefits, which is a recipe for disaster.

The good times simply could not last forever.
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Old 12-31-2009, 10:00 AM
 
13 posts, read 13,330 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
Neither the governor, nor Democrats in the legislature are to blame for this crisis. There's very little that the governor can do. Democrats try to fix things to the extent that they can, but stubborn opposition of Republican minority means that their efforts are in vain. Furthermore, right-wing lies spread by the Republicans (such as all that nonsense about "spending addiction" - what addiction? Last I checked, state's real per capita spending has been flat for the last 10 years), make it more difficult to achieve meaningful reforms.

But I can't say that I blame right-wing nuts in the legislature above all. There's one person who's single-handedly to blame for most of the mess we're in. The person whose actions made the state budget so dysfunctional and susceptible to massive deficits during recessions. Unfortunately, he died more than twenty years ago and he died without even knowing the extent of damage his actions caused. His name is Howard Jarvis.
You are correct Prop 13 was the worst bill that ever passed. The reason is because as time goes on costs to maintain local infrastructure goes up while property tax revenue barely keeps up with inflation. A great example is in Point Loma you drive down a street and see these little houses that have been let go next to these mansions. One person is paying 10 grand a year in taxes while the neighbor is paying 800 a year. How is that fair. What people fail to realize is that as property values increase people who can't afford it move and keep the flow of houses on the market. It's not like Grandma will not be well off from selling here house. So for all us young professionals looking for a house this policy contributes to a shortage of housing which drives up prices. If you say this is wrong why does every other state not have this policy and they don't have the housing costs that we have or the state deficits that we have. California is becoming a backwards state and if we don't change these policies were going to see a California where there is only rich and poor nothing in between. Yea you may make a 100k but what does it matter if all the houses with good school are over 600k. People need to realize that there is no entitlement for you to be in this city or that. If you can afford it you stay if you can't you leave plain and simple. And raising personnel income taxes or gas taxes is not the solution because we are already one of the highest taxed states already.

So the repeal of Prop 13 and the cut on entitlement programs is the only way for our state to really. function again. And don't get me started on entitlement programs because I'm sorry it's not fair they get free money and are able to use that money to get free healthcare, daycare, food, and huge tax returns. By the end of the day they make as much as I do with all the benefits they receive. What is the incentive to go to school and get a good job when the govt will bail you out anyway with all this welfare help.
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