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Old 01-29-2010, 12:51 AM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,755 posts, read 10,798,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Why would anybody want to create a state out of those counties?

There's high unemployment, and the largest population center is Medford.

Come on now.
Not that I disagree with you but this could be the basis of it's appeal. Not everyone likes or wants to be in a heavily urbanized area.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,755 posts, read 10,798,458 times
Reputation: 6085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
Personally, I'd like to see California secede from the Union all together, but that's illegal. The Mythical State of Jefferson is, I suppose, just as much of a fantasy. For one thing, in these types of "break-aways," like counties splitting, the breaking party pays all of the costs. I can't see an area as economically depressed as the Siskiyou region of CA/OR having the financial means to break away, let alone sustain themselves as a State. Not only that, neither California nor Oregon would give up the areas easily, citing tax base and natural resources as the reasons.

Then again, as the U.S. economy falters and crumbles in on itself, the country will probably break up into smaller regional sovereignties. Maybe the State of Jefferson will emerge as its own little area of governance then. Who knows? Of course if that happens in my lifetime, I will have hopefully attained either Canadian or Costa Rican residency, so...
So would I. Illegal is only relative really. I don't think it was legal for the 13 colonies to secede but it happened.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
9,054 posts, read 12,091,047 times
Reputation: 6597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Not that I disagree with you but this could be the basis of it's appeal. Not everyone likes or wants to be in a heavily urbanized area.
I agree, I myself don't like being in a heavily urbanized area.

The economy of the area is enough of a reason to not make it a state. If I were to build a new state, I probably wouldn't build it there with the flagship cities that would be at my disposal.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:56 AM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,755 posts, read 10,798,458 times
Reputation: 6085
That's true David and I see your point now. That area isn't known for it's economic importance.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Bryte, CA
1,966 posts, read 2,781,306 times
Reputation: 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I agree, I myself don't like being in a heavily urbanized area.

The economy of the area is enough of a reason to not make it a state. If I were to build a new state, I probably wouldn't build it there with the flagship cities that would be at my disposal.
A few years ago there was a forum about how to organize Jefferson State. One of the people made a post about the lack of a real economy in the respective areas of Northern California and Southern Oregon. There was more than one reply wherein people agreed at least one major city would have to be annexed to help pay the bills.

What I found amusing about it was the amount of griping about their taxes not serving them, but funding things in North Oregon and the rest of California south of Yuba and Colusa counties. That is, they are annoyed about having to pay taxes to fund projects for other places, but they would be perfectly content if the took in a large metro area, Sacramento for example, so they can be the beneficiary of the taxes paid by other people.

In reality, that is the case. With the exception of the Chico-Durham-Paradise area and Redding, the whole area ranks at near the same socio-economic level as many areas in the South. Have you ever spent time in Oroville? Meth is a major part of their local economy. How about Red Bluff? It is kind of a neat town to walk around, but it would be a ghost town without welfare to keep Wal-Mart and the Grocery Outlet in business, and that is just about the only retailers in Red Bluff where you buy something worth anything.

The only way Jefferson State could exist is if they became another state which received more than they pay in Federal Income Tax. Kind of like Alabama, Kentucky and Mississippi.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,663 posts, read 2,823,302 times
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Where does it say that it requires a large city in order to have a viable society and economy? For an example, look at Wyoming. The largest city in the state, Cheyenne, has a population of about 60,000. Next, if any Southerners see this thread, they will be offended by the remarks about dismissing a state of Jefferson because it would be like parts of the South. Many places in the South are quite pleasant. A capitol city does not need to be large, Cheyenne and Carson City are examples. Places like Chico, Redding, Medford, or Grants Pass could fill the bill. The fantasy of creating a new state, whether Jefferson or other ideas, reflects the dissatisfaction of many California citizens as to what their state has become, but alas, it just a fantasy that will not come true. Too bad, it is a great idea, but it is not going to happen.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:26 PM
 
11,727 posts, read 24,425,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Where does it say that it requires a large city in order to have a viable society and economy? For an example, look at Wyoming. The largest city in the state, Cheyenne, has a population of about 60,000.
Wyoming makes a lot of money in natural resource extraction. Does Jefferson have any oil, gas, or valuable metals under the ground? Are they going to cut down and sell all the trees to support themselves?
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Bryte, CA
1,966 posts, read 2,781,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Where does it say that it requires a large city in order to have a viable society and economy? For an example, look at Wyoming. The largest city in the state, Cheyenne, has a population of about 60,000. Next, if any Southerners see this thread, they will be offended by the remarks about dismissing a state of Jefferson because it would be like parts of the South. Many places in the South are quite pleasant. A capitol city does not need to be large, Cheyenne and Carson City are examples. Places like Chico, Redding, Medford, or Grants Pass could fill the bill. The fantasy of creating a new state, whether Jefferson or other ideas, reflects the dissatisfaction of many California citizens as to what their state has become, but alas, it just a fantasy that will not come true. Too bad, it is a great idea, but it is not going to happen.

Chico, Redding, Medford and Grants Pass don't have enough people to generate enough revenue to pay for Jefferson State. Additionally, a lot of the population doesn't have an income high enough to generate much tax revenue. You aren't understanding how poor some of the people in that area are. Chico, Paradise and Medford are exceptions, but even then the average incomes are still far below other places.

Furthermore, I am not dismissing it as a southern state. I am pointing out that, like the states in the South, it will have to be heavily subsidized with Federal money. This isn't limited to the South either. A handful of other states, many of which have residents who consistently bash and trash California for budget problems, are receiving more money than they pay in income taxes. Like those self-proclaimed Libertarian bastions of Wyoming, Montana and Alaska which are beneficiaries of taxpayers from states like California, New Jersey, New York and Florida.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
9,054 posts, read 12,091,047 times
Reputation: 6597
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Where does it say that it requires a large city in order to have a viable society and economy? For an example, look at Wyoming. The largest city in the state, Cheyenne, has a population of about 60,000. Next, if any Southerners see this thread, they will be offended by the remarks about dismissing a state of Jefferson because it would be like parts of the South. Many places in the South are quite pleasant. A capitol city does not need to be large, Cheyenne and Carson City are examples. Places like Chico, Redding, Medford, or Grants Pass could fill the bill. The fantasy of creating a new state, whether Jefferson or other ideas, reflects the dissatisfaction of many California citizens as to what their state has become, but alas, it just a fantasy that will not come true. Too bad, it is a great idea, but it is not going to happen.
Who's going to pay for all the unemployment benefits, welfare, etc? The people of Redding or Medford? LOL, the state would collapse on itself in no time. WY doesn't have this problem.

Some people fail to realize that in many cases, the cities support the poorer areas of states -- not the other way around.

I'm more interested in the proposed states of Lincoln (the Pac NW version), or the nation of Cascadia. I'd be thrilled to live in either one.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Under Mount Doom
9,115 posts, read 5,955,195 times
Reputation: 4655
Personally, as a denizen of Jefferson, I think we could create a state as good as any. We have a lot of very bright and energetic people here, and we attract more each year. Sure, there are some wingnuts and layabouts too, but it is a wonderful place to live, and we have good agriculture and natural resources too. We are an up and coming wine region, for instance.The question would be what political structure would be best to organize and build a more diverse economic base. Medford and Redding both are bustling towns, reading to grow into cities, but they both need to move from the town mentality. I have no easy answers, but I think it could be done. Folks here are not nearly as ignorant as you would suspect. Many Berkeley and Stanford grads tucked here and there, along with Humboldt, Chico, Southern, and OIT educated folks. We have plenty of human capital.

The biggest drive for Jefferson from folks who live here is that we are claimed by two states, but we are far from any position of influence in either. With distance, low population, and our distinctive geography and culture, we feel different, but our needs are not front and center in either state. We are largely ignored, and to a degree, many of us like that, but it has its drawbacks too, when folks make decisions that don't meet our needs. I am assuming the original Jefferson wannabes just wanted to be left alone. And I see their point.
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