New State Of Jefferson (Los Angeles, San Diego: university, camps, living)

[Clarks]

I have no idea what you mean by west California.

Monterey County 4 billion
San Luis Obispo County 700 million
Santa Barbara 1 Billion
Ventura 1 billion
San Diego 1.5 billion

I am at 8 billion now with 5 counties out of that poor politician's 13 counties, so, go back to your figures. Take a look at what that poor guy thinks is a good idea.

[Lifeshadower]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

The downsizeca website is comical. They complain about illegal aliens, but they are one of the largest pro-illegal alien lobbyists.

Yeah, the hypocrisy of it all. Big agribusiness has been the HUGEST supporter of illegal immigration since..well, the early 1900s. That's what a lot of people mean when they say 'illegals are willing to do jobs that Americans won't do'. It came from Farmer John wanting to underpay Farmer Juan for picking vegetables or fruit

All their clamoring for being against illegal immigration is just to pay lip service to the Republican Party's constituents. Bunch of hypocrites.

Originally Posted by Clarks

I have no idea what you mean by west California.

Monterey County 4 billion
San Luis Obispo County 700 million
Santa Barbara 1 Billion
Ventura 1 billion
San Diego 1.5 billion

I am at 8 billion now with 5 counties out of that poor politician's 13 counties, so, go back to your figures. Take a look at what that poor guy thinks is a good idea.

'West California' is Marin, Contra Costa, Alameda, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, San Benito, Santa Cruz, Monterey, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura, and Los Angeles Counties. Those are the 13 counties he meant. Neither Orange County nor San Diego Counties are shaded in the same color because they 'vote' for the interest of the 'agricultural class'. I'm sure that's what it's all about.

[Clarks]

Big agribusiness has been the HUGEST supporter of illegal immigration since..well, the early 1900s

You have no idea what you are talking about.

and neither does that poor politician. Here is the brass tacks. He wants to drop between a third and a half of California's AG production out of his supposedly AG state. Including the most productive cropland in the United States.

Those central valley farmers wish they got the yields we get on the coast, but they don't.

You see, if this poor politician knew farming, he would know farming, but he doesn't.

You made up that factoid about ag supporting illegal immigration since the early 1900's. It has no truth.

[Lifeshadower]

Originally Posted by Clarks

You have no idea what you are talking about.

and neither does that poor politician. Here is the brass tacks. He wants to drop between a third and a half of California's AG production out of his supposedly AG state. Including the most productive cropland in the United States.

Those central valley farmers wish they got the yields we get on the coast, but they don't.

You see, if this poor politician knew farming, he would know farming, but he doesn't.

You made up that factoid about ag supporting illegal immigration since the early 1900's. It has no truth.

First off, what's wrong with you? I'm not being hostile to you in the one bit, and have provided the relevant statistics to show how much agriculture is worth in the Coastal Counties (minus San Diego, Orange, Sonoma, Mendocino, Humboldt, and Del Norte Counties) as opposed to the rest of California.

Second of all, big agribusiness HAS been supporting illegal immigration for a long time. Look up the Bracero Program of the mid 20th century The Bracero Program

And the huge push for agricultural work during the 1910s, during the Mexican Revolution and during WW1. Source: Becoming Mexican American: ethnicity ... - Google Books

César Chávez: a brief biography with ... - Google Books


I actually agree with you about splitting up California into East and West. You need to relax.

[Clarks]

Look, you are looking at facts that fit your viewpoint. You stated "early 1900's" you are simply wrong.
Field labor was done by US citizens, and after about 1890 by legal Japanese immigrants. Especially on the coast Japanese were the primary field laborers. In 1942 they were interned, growers lost their labor force. At that time the Bracero program was started, the braceros were the primary field labor force until 1962.

When the probram was ended, the need for labor continued, citizens, and legal and illegal immigrants filled that need, and still do. AG business does not support illegals, it supports getting the crops in, and if the government won't provide a program for that, it does not remove the need for the labor.

And, white people won't do the work, it is just to hard, I used to work in the fields, and so did all my friends, that is what we did, but growers knew better than to pay us an hourly wage, they paid us piecework, because we were so darned slow compared to the Mexicans.

We have farmed the same ground since 1908 I do not think there was a Mexican employee until 1942, There are no photographs in our archives that show any Mexicans until the Bracero program.

And Cesar Chavez was a corrupt and evil person.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by Lifeshadower

First off, what's wrong with you? I'm not being hostile to you in the one bit...

It's nothing personal. He's that way to everyone.

[Clarks]

Make sure your facts are accurate, that is all I ask, and no emotional irrationality, like that poor politician.

[goozer]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

About the same as it was in 1941.

Yeah, wouldn't hold my breath on this happening anytime soon. Guam and the Northern Marianas Islands will become states many decades before a state of "Jefferson" is created.

[FresnoFacts]

County ag production value? The counties in California lined up like this for 2007 (omitting timber production), most of the top 10 is inland.
1. Fresno County $5.3 Billion
2. Tulare County $4.8 Billion
3. Kern County $4.1 Billion
4. Monterey County $3.8 Billion
5. Merced County $3 Billion
6. Stanislaus County $2.4 Billion
7. Kings County $1.7 Billion
8. Ventura County $1.5 Billion
9. San Diego County $1.5 Billion
10. Imperial County $1.4 Billion

See the third page at:
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/files/CDFA_Sec3.pdf
The later pages are interesting since they show the top commodities in each county and the top counties for each commodity.

But Clarks it looks like your coastal counties have some catching up to do.

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by Clarks

Those central valley farmers wish they got the yields we get on the coast, but they don't.

Yields in which commodity?

With the exception of strawberries and lettuce in Monterey County, and strawberries in Ventura County, most of the top agricultural producers are in the San Joaquin Valley. San Diego appears to rank high, but a very large share of their agriculture is nursery and floral stock. Monterey would also drop down the list significantly if nursery stock wasn't counted. Most of the coastal counties produce mainly strawberries and nursery stock.

Fresno, Tulare, Kings, Kern and San Joaquin Counties are at the top of the list for most of our common agricultural products. Think climate. Many of our agricultural products do best with hot summers (tomatoes, melons, fruit), and many require substantial chilling time (colder winters) than many locations on the coast, which is why you see peaches and nectarines grown commercially in those pockets with the right microclimates.

You made up that factoid about ag supporting illegal immigration since the early 1900's. It has no truth.

Prior to WWII, much of the field labor in California was done by immigrants. Most of them from Europe. Armenians, Portuguese, and Russians were some of the larger ethnic groups I know of. There were plenty of Japanese, Chinese working in agriculture too. Most of them were legal immigrants. Actually, most of them were children of legal immigrants. There were a handful of stowaways who made is over here and ended up working in agriculture during that time.

After WWII the government didn't handle the end of the bracero program very well, and physically deported quite a few of them. So, the illegal immigrant problem from Mexico is mainly a post-WWII thing.