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Old 01-30-2010, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Bryte, CA
1,963 posts, read 2,835,334 times
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If anyone is interested in California agriculture, the Dept of Ag has plenty of information.

CDFA > Statistics

The link to county statistical data has the breakdowns of what and how much is grown in each county.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,928 posts, read 11,125,099 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
One of the curious American facts, is that the rural states, we can call them the red states, take more in services from the Federal Government, than they pay in. Essentially the rural areas are subsidized by the Urban, or blue states.

Here is my proposal, divide the state into three states. In the southwest, the State of Mordor, it will require a 350 mile wall, much like what some want in along the US Mexico border, but much cheaper as it will be much shorter. This to keep the Mordorians out of California, and the State of T Roosevelt in the north.
Screw that! I don't want to be stuck in this Mordor creation! Wit till I leave. I would would put that northern boundary a little further north above the bay as well.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,899,043 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Look, you are looking at facts that fit your viewpoint. You stated "early 1900's" you are simply wrong.
Field labor was done by US citizens, and after about 1890 by legal Japanese immigrants. Especially on the coast Japanese were the primary field laborers. In 1942 they were interned, growers lost their labor force. At that time the Bracero program was started, the braceros were the primary field labor force until 1962.

When the probram was ended, the need for labor continued, citizens, and legal and illegal immigrants filled that need, and still do. AG business does not support illegals, it supports getting the crops in, and if the government won't provide a program for that, it does not remove the need for the labor.

And, white people won't do the work, it is just to hard, I used to work in the fields, and so did all my friends, that is what we did, but growers knew better than to pay us an hourly wage, they paid us piecework, because we were so darned slow compared to the Mexicans.

We have farmed the same ground since 1908 I do not think there was a Mexican employee until 1942, There are no photographs in our archives that show any Mexicans until the Bracero program.

And Cesar Chavez was a corrupt and evil person.
Well, you can't exactly blame me for echoing sentiments that I've heard time and time again. I knew that the origin of the farmworkers was way more diverse in the early 20th century than simply Mexican, but there was a noticeable demographic shift in 1900's from primarily Asian to primarily Mexican field hands. My grandfather (straight from the Philippines, but later returned during the war) actually worked on the farms near Salinas in the 1930s, and most of the fellow field hands were from the same area of the Philippines.

The reason I pinpoint it at the early 1900s (especially after the Mexican Revolution) and not later is due to the presence of primarily Mexican (illegal or legal) immigrant labor in the Imperial Valley. Remember, the first laws against illegal immigrants were passed against the Chinese (Chinese Exclusion Act, 1882), not against the Mexicans. When the Immigration and Naturalization Act passed in 1917, and again in 1924, quotas were made on almost EVERY nationality BUT South of the Border. There are many disputed reasons of why this is, but according to many scholars, it was the presence of big agribusiness in California that wanted cheap labor that made the big difference. (Source: Historical Documents and Speeches - The Immigration Act of 1924 (http://web.archive.org/web/20080210025205/http://www.historicaldocuments.com/ImmigrationActof1924.htm - broken link))

Quote:
Since part of the thrust of the 1924 law was to select those best suited to American society, this system permitted an initial screening of immigrants. The quota system did not apply to countries in the Western Hemisphere. The United States did not want to alienate its neighbors, and it needed workers, especially those from Mexico. During World Wars I and II, the U.S. recruited thousands ohttp://www.city-data.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12685488f temporary workers from Mexico to harvest crops in our labor-short farmland. In 1929 the quota system based on national origin went into effect.
The phenomenon of Mexican (legal or illegal immigrant) labor later spread into the rest of California AFTER WW2, but it started trickling in before hand. Again, this varied from area to area, and in Central California it was probably the case that the change was wholly after WW2.

Quote:
And, white people won't do the work, it is just to hard, I used to work in the fields, and so did all my friends, that is what we did, but growers knew better than to pay us an hourly wage, they paid us piecework, because we were so darned slow compared to the Mexicans.
Working in the fields doesn't sound like anyone's idea of a good time. My dad's family in the Philippines are still (rice) farmers, and the week that I worked on the farm was one of the most back breaking of my life. I honestly don't know ANYONE who would want to work on the fields for a living.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,928 posts, read 11,125,099 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
I have no idea what you mean by west California.

Monterey County 4 billion
San Luis Obispo County 700 million
Santa Barbara 1 Billion
Ventura 1 billion
San Diego 1.5 billion

I am at 8 billion now with 5 counties out of that poor politician's 13 counties, so, go back to your figures. Take a look at what that poor guy thinks is a good idea.
I don't know if you meant to say just the city of San Diego but that number is only the city population. SD County is closer to 3 billion, I believe a little more actually.

Also SD county is not included in the "West California" concept because it's not quite as liberal. It's an attempt to separate from the liberals why this was even an idea in the first place. Many of these politicians resent the fact that Los Angeles and San Francisco basically are responsible for keeping Ca. in the left/blue side of politics. They fail to realize that, that's how it is for most states. The large urban centers dictate which direction things go politically as well they should. As mentioned before it's these urban areas that help support the rural areas. New York and Minnesota are "blue states" but this very likely has to do with the presence of NY City and Minneapolis/St. Paul respectively. Only New England, and more recently Iowa of all places are largely rural and seem to lean left. Although in Iowa it could be just a phase.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,899,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
I don't know if you meant to say just the city of San Diego but that number is only the city population. SD County is closer to 3 billion, I believe a little more actually.
It's not about population . It's on the value of agricultural products within San Diego County. I was surprised to see the value of AG in SD to be $1.5 billion, to be honest. The source from the Federal Government even pinpoints it to be less, but I trust the state source more since they are more intimately involved with California agriculture.

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publica..._2_002_002.pdf
Page 6: San Diego County - ~$1.1 billion

Quote:
Also SD county is not included in the "West California" concept because it's not quite as liberal. It's an attempt to separate from the liberals why this was even an idea in the first place. Many of these politicians resent the fact that Los Angeles and San Francisco basically are responsible for keeping Ca. in the left/blue side of politics. They fail to realize that, that's how it is for most states. The large urban centers dictate which direction things go politically as well they should. As mentioned before it's these urban areas that help support the rural areas. New York and Minnesota are "blue states" but this very likely has to do with the presence of NY City and Minneapolis/St. Paul respectively. Only New England, and more recently Iowa of all places are largely rural and seem to lean left. Although in Iowa it could be just a phase.
Yeah, that's how Democracy works. More people obviously live in the cities than in the countryside (Greater LA and the Bay Area make up 67-68% of California's population!), so the 'West California concept' was made to circumvent the politics of majoritarianism. Iowa is a great example of an active competent state government in a somewhat rural state that's liberal.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 3,461,896 times
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ag production dollars there gentoo.

It is true lifeshadower that the Filipinos came in some numbers, and worked in the fields along with the Japanese. We had filipino supervisors when I was a boy, but not field workers.

The Filipinos, like the Japanese and unlike the Mexicans, bought farms, today of course, there are no Filipinos or Japanese doing stoop labor.

It is a matter of culture, the Mexican immigrants were peasants in the old country and did not take advantage of the opportunity here, as did the Japanese and Filipino.

That has changed somewhat, there are Mexican American owned farms, but not many. Many of the AG support operations are Mexican American owned. Abel Maldonaldo is a great example, whether you agree with his politics or not. He started as a field worker, wound up owning cooling plants.

Another friend of mine came here as an illegal as a child. His company employs 1200 workers, 85 percent illegal, because that is what will work in the fields.

My father and others ran camps for illegals up side canyons. They did not do this because they supported illegal immigration, but because they needed workers, and there weren't enough Americans willing or able to do the work.

If you are interested in the Mexican American experience there are two books by Francisco Jimenez, professor at Santa Clara University, who came here as an illegal. The books; "The Circuit" and "Breaking Through"

His mother was our housekeeper, back in the olden days.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 3,461,896 times
Reputation: 759
Quote:
It's an attempt to separate from the liberals why this was even an idea in the first place. Many of these politicians resent the fact that Los Angeles and San Francisco basically are responsible for keeping Ca. in the left/blue side of politics
It is important to remember that the rightists, the red, have done nothing for the country throughout its history, and in fact have been on the wrong side of every important issue beginning with the Revolutionary War and Independence for America.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,928 posts, read 11,125,099 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
It's not about population . It's on the value of agricultural products within San Diego County. I was surprised to see the value of AG in SD to be $1.5 billion, to be honest. The source from the Federal Government even pinpoints it to be less, but I trust the state source more since they are more intimately involved with California agriculture.
Ah I see now. Yeah there are a lot of nuseries in SD County, especially those freaking palm trees. SD county is also one of the only areas where avocados are grown in the US. We do have some citrus grown here as well as well as some strawberries. SD counties AG isn't obvious especially avocado groves since they are on steep hills but it is quite prevalent.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:51 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,928 posts, read 11,125,099 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
It is important to remember that the rightists, the red, have done nothing for the country throughout its history, and in fact have been on the wrong side of every important issue beginning with the Revolutionary War and Independence for America.
I agree with you 110%
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 3,461,896 times
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Quote:
I agree with you 110%
You are an intelligent person... Well, of course, it is hard to argue with facts, although the rightists have been doing it for hundreds of years, for all the good it has done them.
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