Leaving California (San Diego, Sacramento, Napa: lawyers, buying a home, transfer)

[graffixjones]

Originally Posted by Good Karma

I have tried talking him into moving to Oregon
but he isn't even considering it !

In this case, I think your hubby may be right... Oregonians view transplanted Californians very dimly. The economy isn't that great unless you live on the I-5 corridor, that has prices that rival California's due to the influx of Californians that started back in the 80's.

My mother lives just outside Klamath Falls, OR, and the economic opportunities in that area aren't great unless you work for Jeld-Wen, Home Depot or WalMart. The last time we went to visit, as I was getting ready to pull into her driveway (with my signal on), a truckful of young male Oregonians went around us while giving us the single-finger salute. My stepfather couldn't believe it... he was out in the yard and saw the whole thing. If I hadn't been paying attention and turned in front of them, it could've been bad... and my offense? Having California license plates.

I think that if you try convincing him to move to a state other than Oregon, you might have better luck... and will probably be more welcome when you get there.

[junkman18]

[quote=graffixjones;840551]Twinkle Toes, please realize that I'm not directing this at you personally, but this is the "California" attitude that is primarily the reason I'm considering leaving the state.

I'm sick and tired of rich people that think they're entitled to own $3m homes and not pay more than the bare minimum back to the state.

The tax burden is so unfair in this state... you can have two houses right next door to one another, both with equal value, where one family is paying taxes on the value of the home when it was originally purchased in the 80's (or 70's), and the new family that moved in next door is paying taxes on it's (hugely) increased value today. All thanks to Prop. 13.




True story, We built are house in 1979 when we sold it last year taxes were $ 1,400 the people that bought it are paying $6,000 for the same house.
We took are money and got the ha out of california, So glad to be out of there

[midnightbirdgirl]

[quote=junkman18;875273]

Originally Posted by graffixjones

Twinkle Toes, please realize that I'm not directing this at you personally, but this is the "California" attitude that is primarily the reason I'm considering leaving the state.

I'm sick and tired of rich people that think they're entitled to own $3m homes and not pay more than the bare minimum back to the state.

The tax burden is so unfair in this state... you can have two houses right next door to one another, both with equal value, where one family is paying taxes on the value of the home when it was originally purchased in the 80's (or 70's), and the new family that moved in next door is paying taxes on it's (hugely) increased value today. All thanks to Prop. 13.




True story, We built are house in 1979 when we sold it last year taxes were $ 1,400 the people that bought it are paying $6,000 for the same house.
We took are money and got the ha out of california, So glad to be out of there

I agree 100%. Why should only some folks pay for services with their taxes, while everyone has access to them. It is very unbalanced!!
MBG

[Ultrarunner]

Why should someone be forced to sell their home of many years only because someone with more money buys next door and grossly overpays, there by raising the property tax of the entire neighborhood.

It does not sound fair that actions of others with money can impact your ability to keep the roof over your head and that is how the initiative called Prop 13 came into being. Rich people can afford to live anywhere they want, prop 13 protects the everyday homeowner by providing stability to property taxes.

Property reassessment in this state is triggered by a change of ownership or by improvements made.

Property is only worth what someone is willing and able to pay for it at a given time. Each property is unique for purposes of the law and anything other than a bona fide sale is only an OPINION of value. I would never want to go back to the pre Prop 13 system where you are taxed based on someone's OPINION of the value of your home.

At least with Prop 13, everyone is treated the same. Base value is determined at the time of sale and property tax is limited to annual increases of 2%.

By the way, I'm one of those paying $8800 per year on the home I bought from a retired couple in their 80's. They built their home in 1957 and their last tax bill the year I bought was $1200.

[EscapeCalifornia]

I know why Prop13 was passed and I don't want to see people taxed out of their houses. But it has created a situation where the tax burden is very, very uneven. Maybe it should be amended to allow larger annual increases of say 3-5% instead of 2%. Also, we could freeze the tax bill (or reduce the rate of increase) for people who are retired or permanently disabled. I'm not saying to repeal it, but when I'm paying 6x as much property tax as my parents because I happen to have been born 30 years after them, something's wrong with the system.

[graffixjones]

I know that my position on Prop. 13 is an unpopular one, but the way I see it is that it has not only created a very uneven system, but it destroyed public schools in the process.

Like EscapeCalifornia stated, a system could be implemented to ease the burden on those that can least afford it, but the way the system is structured now isn't fair in the least.

People like to trot out the "little old lady on a fixed income" defense whenever people talk about Prop. 13, but I ask, how many people in this forum aren't on a fixed income? Does people's income vary from month to month? Maybe if you work on commission, or something of that nature... but barring annual COLA's, I'd say that 90% of the people on this board are living on a 'fixed' income.

The way I see it is that in order to own a house I pretty much have to leave the state that I grew up in, and have a fondness for, so that people can still pay a pittance in property taxes.

Prop. 13 also affects mobility, because people tend to stay in the same house forever, just to avoid having to pay a higher property tax, which keeps fewer houses on the market, and drives up the price of those that are left available (basic supply and demand).

I still stand by my opinion that something needs to change... Prop. 13 sounds great when you tell people that they're going to save money by staying put, but factor in the social cost of a whole generation of barely literate students graduating from substandard schools, a state that's strapped for cash and cannot provide basic social services (they put that off onto the counties), and the fact that there is such a wide discrepancy in taxes being paid for those same services... suddenly the picture doesn't look so rosy.

I've been told several times that I should either suck it up and pay the money, or find somewhere else to live (in this thread even), so I say the same thing to those who support Prop. 13.

And once again, this isn't directed at any one person in particular... just letting off a bit of steam, as I get home from work to my dump of a rental house in my oh-so-wonderful low-income neighborhood.

[Ultrarunner]

Escape California... I think we share some common views... my biggest fear is that any changes to the way California taxes property will only lead to a downward spiral resulting in more people leaving.

Property Tax is only one part of the California Tax System. California also has major Sales and Income Taxes as well as hundreds of other fees and taxes... like higher motor vehicle fees and special assessments for everything from public transportation to lead paint abatement.

To my knowledge, none of our neighboring states have all three major taxes like California does... Oregon has no Sales Tax and Washington no Income Tax and both States are very popular with relocating Californians.

I don't believe the problem is that California is not taxing residents enough. People of means are cashing out and leaving California as it is. I fear more will decide to leave if taxes increase in our ever more mobile society.

In the big picture, the majority of California homes change hands and are reassessed about every 7 years. (My stat is a few years old, maybe someone has a more recent number) In my neighborhood, most of the homes have changed ownership during the last 4 years. If anything, the perceived inequity of prop 13 is self correcting as homes are sold and reassessed.

I don't begrudge any of our long time senior homeowners the stability Prop 13 affords them and as time goes forward, I hope to be able to look back after 25 or 30 years, to when I bought my home in 2006 and also enjoy the benefit of Prop 13.

[YakimaBelle]

1) Taxes and fees.
2) Rotten schools.
3) Illegal immigrants (see 1 & 2)
4) Political correctness
5) Anti-hunting and anti-firearms sentiment.

The irony is that our move is simplified because of number 5; in reaction to California's confusing firearms laws, we built a house in the state we are moving to about seven years ago, and moved our collection. Since we already have the house, it is very easy to move because of numbers 1 - 4.

California is in the midst of a "middle class riot." Middle class people don't march down streets and trash other people's property - they move away. In our neighborhood we have had an enormous outflow after parents decided that there is no reason to pay taxes for schools where their children are expected to learn Spanish and where the curriculum in the fifth grade would be a disgrace in the second grade in Nebraska, Kansas, Idaho, or Mississippi.

[YakimaBelle]

Actually, living in California, I am sick and tired of paying to support people who feel they should be supported by the rest of us and should be supported in a style those of us who work wish we could afford.

People who have far more children than they can support.
People who have children out of wedlock that they cannot support.
People who drop out of school and can't support themselves.
People who refuse to learn English and are infuriated when they can't advance beyond manual labor into the skilled trades or the professions.

I certainly do NOT live in a $3 million dollar home; but I am tired of seeing the Escalade's driven by the neighbor who pays for the groceries with food stamps.

[davidt1]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Why should someone be forced to sell their home of many years only because someone with more money buys next door and grossly overpays, there by raising the property tax of the entire neighborhood.

It does not sound fair that actions of others with money can impact your ability to keep the roof over your head and that is how the initiative called Prop 13 came into being. Rich people can afford to live anywhere they want, prop 13 protects the everyday homeowner by providing stability to property taxes.

Property reassessment in this state is triggered by a change of ownership or by improvements made.

Property is only worth what someone is willing and able to pay for it at a given time. Each property is unique for purposes of the law and anything other than a bona fide sale is only an OPINION of value. I would never want to go back to the pre Prop 13 system where you are taxed based on someone's OPINION of the value of your home.

At least with Prop 13, everyone is treated the same. Base value is determined at the time of sale and property tax is limited to annual increases of 2%.

By the way, I'm one of those paying $8800 per year on the home I bought from a retired couple in their 80's. They built their home in 1957 and their last tax bill the year I bought was $1200.

Thank you. Finally, a post that makes sense on prop 13.

Look at what's happening in Florida:

Behind Florida's Property Tax Revolt | TIME