U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 02-24-2010, 10:19 AM
 
Location: The High Seas
5,513 posts, read 6,482,590 times
Reputation: 6064
Default Is California Insolvent?

I don't know anything about this website, but happened to hear a radio interview with this guy: CA Political News | Welcome to CA Political News
The gist of the interview was that CA has dug a hole that will take a generation to get out from. I couldn't keep track of all the debts currently owed by the state government, but at the end of it all, the "real" figure is $650 billion. I don't see that on the website, but it wouldn't surprise me if the $36 billion quoted on the site is the more accurate figure, instead of the $21 billion currently being presented by Arnold and company.
The future of CA is not at all looking rosy.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-24-2010, 10:26 AM
 
11,728 posts, read 22,936,556 times
Reputation: 7058
The economy will eventually recover, even in California. What happens then will decide the state's fate. If the politicians are able to somehow grow a brain, keep growth in government to at or below the rate of inflation, and use the tax money from the next economic upswing to put things in order, there's the state has a chance.

But history has shown that politicians have the learning ability of the common housefly and will likely see the increased tax money as free money. They'll use it to enrich themselves and whoever buys them off. The state's debts will continue to accumulate, taxes will go up, and we'll have the death spiral of California as more productive people leave, decreasing tax revenue.

Sadly, the whole thing will have to collapse on itself before anything in government changes.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
826 posts, read 703,260 times
Reputation: 1499
Well anyone who uses the moniker of "EscapeCalifornia" to try and describe the future of it, you have to sort of take what he says with a grain of salt.

That said however, most of those points are pretty much right on the mark and I can't really see much to disagree with.

We lay so much blame on a Gerrymandered legislature who seems more interested in "business as usual because that's all we've ever done and that's all we know how to do". That's all true, but just as much fault lies with the electorate. California as a whole seems to place a much greater emphasis on nice weather and tasty fish tacos than it does on the cost of living here and what is and isn't sustainable. And if the posts I read are any indication, there's a virtually limitless supply of people wanting, willing, and ready to move here to either join in and/or take the place of a fed-up ex-native who finally skips the state. And when it comes to election day, all of that gets thrown out the window in favor of the "MY candidate isn't part of the problem because *I* voted for him and that person also happens to fit my preferred age/gender/ethnic/party affiliation" conformist vote.

So don't look to see anything resembling change for the forseeable future.

So where's the incentive for the idiots in Sacratomato to change when 1) the people will pay, no matter what? And 2) there's a virtually limitless pool of current and future taxpayers to continue footing the bill and 3) apologists here on CD that call it "the price of living in CA"?

Not unless you consider greatly increased taxes coupled with greatly reduced benefits a sign of 'progress'.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 11:13 AM
 
11,728 posts, read 22,936,556 times
Reputation: 7058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
Well anyone who uses the moniker of "EscapeCalifornia" to try and describe the future of it, you have to sort of take what he says with a grain of salt.

That said however, most of those points are pretty much right on the mark and I can't really see much to disagree with.
So my opinions aren't valid because of my username, but everything I just wrote is pretty much right? Yeah, that makes sense.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: southern california
47,976 posts, read 43,453,076 times
Reputation: 38755
medical is bust. california is "a gal that just cant say no" (from oklahoma) sing it.
bunch of people have moved here from mexico w/o papers and wont leave.
american greedy employees like cheap willing labor. they have no problem with slavery and exploitation as long as its not them.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Northern California
3,468 posts, read 8,528,906 times
Reputation: 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
I don't know anything about this website, but happened to hear a radio interview with this guy: CA Political News | Welcome to CA Political News
The gist of the interview was that CA has dug a hole that will take a generation to get out from. I couldn't keep track of all the debts currently owed by the state government, but at the end of it all, the "real" figure is $650 billion. I don't see that on the website, but it wouldn't surprise me if the $36 billion quoted on the site is the more accurate figure, instead of the $21 billion currently being presented by Arnold and company.
The future of CA is not at all looking rosy.
I heard the same radio interview. Many of the debts he mentioned were all the bond issues that have to be paid back and also the pension and health care unfunded liabilities (Calpers) that California owes. There are also court cases that CA has lost such as a court case about prison health care in which CA has to come up with more money.

On the wesite, they mention $48 billion deficit in state employee health care, $50 billion owed to local agencies, $200 billion owed to the state pension plan, $24 billion to the teachers pension plan plus $120 billion in outstanding debt (bonds and borrowed money).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
5,513 posts, read 6,482,590 times
Reputation: 6064
Quote:
Originally Posted by humboldtrat View Post
I heard the same radio interview. Many of the debts he mentioned were all the bond issues that have to be paid back and also the pension and health care unfunded liabilities (Calpers) that California owes. There are also court cases that CA has lost such as a court case about prison health care in which CA has to come up with more money.

On the wesite, they mention $48 billion deficit in state employee health care, $50 billion owed to local agencies, $200 billion owed to the state pension plan, $24 billion to the teachers pension plan plus $120 billion in outstanding debt (bonds and borrowed money).
Yep! If those figures are correct....OUCH! The state pension plan and the outstanding debt make up the vast bulk of it. Seriously though, $21 billion is damn scary enough (and you know they're showing the 'best face' of the problem)
I work for the schools and the $2 billion statewide cuts is decimating the ranks. Now, unfortunately, the ones working closest to educating the kids are the ones first on the chopping block. I can't tell you how pizzed I am at the cronyism that goes on in school districts and the bloated administration.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of SW MO
18,305 posts, read 14,467,571 times
Reputation: 15916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
I don't know anything about this website, but happened to hear a radio interview with this guy: CA Political News | Welcome to CA Political News
The gist of the interview was that CA has dug a hole that will take a generation to get out from. I couldn't keep track of all the debts currently owed by the state government, but at the end of it all, the "real" figure is $650 billion. I don't see that on the website, but it wouldn't surprise me if the $36 billion quoted on the site is the more accurate figure, instead of the $21 billion currently being presented by Arnold and company.
The future of CA is not at all looking rosy.
California insolvent? Nah! It's just broke, busted, flat-lined, destitute, upside down and circling the drain!

Dan Walters spent decades as the primary CA political reporter for the Sacramento Union newspaper until they went under. He then switched to the Sacramento Bee where he's now been for about 15 years. He's well-respected and far more often right than wrong.

One rule of thumb I always followed while I was a state legislative analyst was to take the deficit projection put forward in the Governor's State of the State Address and double it . By the time the May Revision was released, it was usually double the figure given in January. It also usually gets even worse from there.

Unless and until almost the entire process of revenue collection and expenditure is overhauled from top-to-bottom, California can only expect things to get worse. All the mandatory categorical spending that's been heaped on the State General Fund by the Legislature and the initiative process have literally killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Northern California
3,468 posts, read 8,528,906 times
Reputation: 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
Yep! If those figures are correct....OUCH! The state pension plan and the outstanding debt make up the vast bulk of it. Seriously though, $21 billion is damn scary enough (and you know they're showing the 'best face' of the problem)
I work for the schools and the $2 billion statewide cuts is decimating the ranks. Now, unfortunately, the ones working closest to educating the kids are the ones first on the chopping block. I can't tell you how pizzed I am at the cronyism that goes on in school districts and the bloated administration.
So getting back to that website: what is Texas doing differently than California? Texas has 8.3% unemployment vs. 12% in CA. Texas has no state income tax (and people in CA whine that we need to repeal Prop 13 so we can send more money to Sacramento). The cost of living is cheaper in Texas - you can even buy a nice house in Texas for $120K or something like that. What am I missing?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of SW MO
18,305 posts, read 14,467,571 times
Reputation: 15916
Quote:
Originally Posted by humboldtrat View Post
So getting back to that website: what is Texas doing differently than California? Texas has 8.3% unemployment vs. 12% in CA. Texas has no state income tax (and people in CA whine that we need to repeal Prop 13 so we can send more money to Sacramento). The cost of living is cheaper in Texas - you can even buy a nice house in Texas for $120K or something like that. What am I missing?
Part-time Legislature, business friendly, more Republicans than Democrats, no initiative process, pretty much lives within its means. Other than that you're not missing a thing!
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top