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View Poll Results: Would you split California if you could?
I'm from northern California and YES I would split it like a banana! 23 27.06%
I'm from northern California and NO, keep the whole enchilada! 24 28.24%
I'm from southern California and Yes I would split it like a banana! 16 18.82%
I'm from southern California and NO, keep the whole enchilada! 22 25.88%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2011, 03:09 AM
 
81 posts, read 107,943 times
Reputation: 85

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I think that the diverse geography and culture of California is what makes it such a unique and wonderful state. I strongly oppose such a divide!

 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
7,346 posts, read 4,129,015 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv101 View Post
If you did divide the state into NorCal & SoCal, the fight to determine which part of the state would have gotten the impoverished Central California region with that 30% unemployment rate would be interesting watch.
Actually, that's always the real dilemma isn't it, that we can't do with 'em (the Central Valley) due to the poverty and general backwardness (which usually goes hand-in-hand), and we can't do without 'em, because of all the agriculture (including 40% of all fruit & nut crops in the U.S. and over 70% of all dairy).

Which also makes a pretty good microcosm of the ongoing tension on the national level, between the rural and agricultural "red" states, and the urban and coastal "blue" ones.

Just personally, I'd suggest encouraging another great "back to the land" movement similar to the 60's and 70's, and we could provide financial incentives for college-educated "hippies" to move into the Central Valley, to once again "re-educate" the local "culture". In fact if an influx of earlier counter-culture types hadn't first moved into those areas 30-40 years ago, arguably many parts of the Valley would probably be even much worse off now! For example you can say what you want about "hippies" and growing pot, but their "resourcefulness" sure hasn't hurt the rural economies on the North Coast, which was also once a pretty conservative area.

Last edited by mateo45; 01-07-2011 at 08:20 AM..
 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:39 AM
 
4,815 posts, read 5,698,707 times
Reputation: 2669
NO, it should not be divided in any way! The different landscapes, cultures, cities, people, and climate along with the 8th largest economy in the World, is what makes California so unique! Dividing it up would just ruin all that and take away the appeal.

Although I wouldn't object to San Francisco falling into the ocean as someone mentioned earlier. We need a healthy balance of politics to keep this state in good shape, NOT extreme left poltics taking over the whole state (not talking about gay marriage, I support it.)
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
7,346 posts, read 4,129,015 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBlue View Post
NO, it should not be divided in any way! The different landscapes, cultures, cities, people, and climate along with the 8th largest economy in the World, is what makes California so unique! Dividing it up would just ruin all that and take away the appeal.

Although I wouldn't object to San Francisco falling into the ocean as someone mentioned earlier. We need a healthy balance of politics to keep this state in good shape, NOT extreme left poltics taking over the whole state (not talking about gay marriage, I support it.)
Now that sounds just about as "schizophrenic" a viewpoint as the whole state!
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,395 posts, read 14,916,579 times
Reputation: 5331
If anything I think CA should secede from the US so it can do its own thing. Same with Cascadia(OR/WA/BC) splitting from US/Canada. There is a somewhat strong movement for Cascadia to do this. CA itself has more in common with itself despite the differences than it does with the rest of the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBlue View Post

Plus states in the south and midwest like Texas eat fatty foods like bbq pork, chicken etc as part of their culture. That's not even fast food, but what they make at home! So you can ban happy meals but there is always potato chips, candy, and other fatty foods. so fatty foods will never be eliminated despite how hard SF tries.
Which is fine for you because it is unprocessed and *real* food. Mexicans eat lard and beef brains as part of their culture. Asians eat a ton of white rice and rice noodles plus obscene amounts of sodium.
Texas is not hot humid and flat by the way.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 12:04 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 514,767 times
Reputation: 464
I'd split it. There is nothing in common between socal and norcal, and the whole thing is a mess. Smaller budgets may be easier to keep under control
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,909,744 times
Reputation: 2264
Can't believe this topic has revived (now wildly off-topic). Anyways, throughout my time posting here, I've posted a lot on this very topic (which has no chance of happening, BTW) but was very curious to see how it would play out. Here's a summation of most of those posts:

Again, the biggest split in California isn't North/South, but rather between the Coast and Inland areas. In fact, in the last year, a few assemblymen have proposed splitting California along East/West lines rather than North/South

This has been discussed to death in the California forum, so here were my posts on what a North/South and East/West split would look like

http://www.city-data.com/forum/13628715-post5.html

Southern California (along the 35'46 N line with Inyo and Mono Counties for Eastern Sierras)
Population: 23,418,460
Area: ~70,000 square miles (current counties of Inyo, Mono, San Luis Obispo, Kern, San Bernardino, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Los Angeles, Riverside, Imperial, Orange, and San Diego)
Economic Size: ~$1.1 trillion (per capita: $49,612)

Northern California
Population: 14,874,227
Area: 93,000 square miles (remainder of California)
Economic Size: ~$700 billion (per capita: $47,061)

Economically, this split would be fair because Northern and Southern California would still remain top 5 economies and top 5 states by population in the US. (SoCal would be 2nd, NorCal would be 5th)

OR an East-West Split

Coastal California (minus Orange and San Diego Counties)
Population: ~18,600,000
Area: ~30,000 square miles
Economic Size: $1.2 trillion (per capita: $64,516)

Inland California
Population: ~19,400,000
Area: ~133,000 square miles
Economic Size: $600 billion (per capita: $35,905)

Inland California would be an EXTREMELY poor state, but reliably conservative! While the latter would be growing more in population, it wouldn't be getting as rich as Coastal California.

Inland CA would be ranked 3rd in population, but be ranked 6th in gross state product, while Coastal California would be 4th in population but 1st in gross state product (fighting it out with Texas).

If Northern and Southern California were states, BOTH would be reliably blue states. I'll use the 2008 US Presidential election as an example [not indicative since it was kind of a weird year].
(Source: http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/sov/2008_general/ssov/4-pres-statewide-summary-by-county.pdf (broken link))

California:
Obama: 8,274,473 (61.01% of the vote)
McCain: 5,011,781 (36.95% of the vote)

Northern California:
Obama: 3,635,898 (65.45% of the Northern CA vote)
McCain: 1,919,640 (35.55% of the Northern CA vote)

Southern California:
Obama: 4,638,575 (60.0% of the Southern CA vote)
McCain: 3,092,141 (40.0% of the Southern CA vote)

Both pretty liberal states when it comes down to it, mostly because the population is clustered along the coast around LA and SF (the two most liberal areas in the state). Now compare that to Inland and Coastal CA:

Coastal California
Obama: 4,855,861 (70.6% of the Coastal vote)
McCain: 2,025,638 (29.4% of the Coastal vote)

Inland California (plus San Diego and Orange Counties)
Obama: 3,418,612 (53.3% of the Inland vote)
McCain: 2,986,413 (46.7% of the Inland vote)

Keep in mind that the 2008 election was a weird year. In usual years, Inland California would be a lot more red.

In terms of racial diversity, here's what it looks like:

California (California - ACS Demographic and Housing Estimates: 2006-2008)
42.6% Non-Hispanic White
36.1% Hispanic
12.4% Asian and Pacific Islander
6.0% Non-Hispanic Black
2.1% Two or More Races
27.1% Foreign Born (55.3% Latin America, 34.2% Asia, 6.9% Europe, 1.5% Africa, 1.4% Canada, 0.8% Oceania)

Northern California
Non Hispanic White: 7,808,969 (52.5%)
Hispanic: 3,807,852 (25.6%)
Asian and Pacific Islander: 2,104,593 (14.2%)
Black: 782,249 (5.3%)
Two or More Races: 360,883 (2.4%)

Foreign Born: 3,416,674 (23.1% Foreign Born; of which 9.2% Europe, 45.4% Asia, 40.9% Latin America, 1.6% Africa, 1.3% Oceania, 1.5% Northern America )

Southern California
Non Hispanic White: 9,853,039 (42.0%)
Hispanic: 9,353,126 (39.9%)
Asian and Pacific Islander: 2,427,646 (10.4%)
Black: 1,359,530 (5.8%)
Two or More Races: 393,705 (1.6%)

Foreign Born: 6,438,833 (27.5% Foreign Born; of which 5.6% Europe, 29.9% Asia, 61.2% Latin America, 1.4% Africa, <1% Oceania, 1.2% Northern America )

To expand on the political organization of each state:
http://www.cookpolitical.com/sites/default/files/pvistate.pdf (broken link)
Cook Partisan Voting Index: Organizing the states by political polarization

California, as a whole, has a rating of D + 7 (meaning that in California, the Democrats will win at a rate of 7 points HIGHER than the national average vote for the Democrats)

Northern California would consist of districts 1-21 (with some modifications)
Southern California would consist of districts 22-53 (with some modifications)

Northern California would have a political rating of D +10.8
Southern California would have a political rating of D +6.8

Coastal California (Los Angeles County north to the northern border of the Bay Area) would consist of districts 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39
Inland California would be the remaining 28 districts

Coastal California would have a rating of D +20.25 (by comparison, the most Democrat leaning state has a rating of D+13)
Inland California would have a rating of R+3.1, akin to North Carolina or Missouri. It would probably be a large swing state.

It's fun pondering these "what if's", but neither scenario would happen. However, if it were to happen, I think most Californians conceptualize a North-South split, rather than an East-West split DESPITE making a whole lot more sense.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: SW MO Aux Arcs
19,300 posts, read 16,668,171 times
Reputation: 17436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
It's fun pondering these "what if's", but neither scenario would happen. However, if it were to happen, I think most Californians conceptualize a North-South split, rather than an East-West split DESPITE making a whole lot more sense.
An East-West asplit would make more sense EXCEPT, all the population centers -- ergo the financial and political power -- would end up in West CA. Fresno and Bakersfield just don't count in those regards.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,909,744 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
An East-West asplit would make more sense EXCEPT, all the population centers -- ergo the financial and political power -- would end up in West CA. Fresno and Bakersfield just don't count in those regards.
Don't worry: Sacramento and San Diego would end up in Eastern California for that very reason. For the sake of the comparison, OC and SD counties are in Eastern California, because its pretty clear that they would have much more power and political commonalities with Eastern California than the rest of Coastal California. Who knows, maybe those two would greatly rise up on their own and pose a threat to the power of LA and SF.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,941 posts, read 11,184,836 times
Reputation: 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
Don't worry: Sacramento and San Diego would end up in Eastern California for that very reason. For the sake of the comparison, OC and SD counties are in Eastern California, because its pretty clear that they would have much more power and political commonalities with Eastern California than the rest of Coastal California. Who knows, maybe those two would greatly rise up on their own and pose a threat to the power of LA and SF.
Maybe but politically San Diego is moving closer to LA and the Bay Area than it ever once was. San Diego was once as conservative as Orange County. No way it would "mesh" with OC today. Parts of the county are still like that but SD itself is changing.
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